Hi Jim, I like this idea too. Don't know if I'd be qualified to join discussions, but if possible I would certainly be interested in being a back-row observer at least. Somebody has to take the initiative as organizer/inviter; why not you? A conference of the sort you describe could be a very useful way to provoke and influence thinking on steam car design, and might lead to one or more gooby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Mike, I have some major hi-stress business matters up in the air right now. It is a minor miracle that I am still sane enough to compose emails & board postings, let alone plan a trip. I would _like_ to be in the UK around May 20th, but that depends on several things getting resolved, which are currently dragging on and on and on. Okay, sorry to vent. But that is my target date forby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Amen all around guys! The only thing I would add is that if anything I am a little more pessimistic now, I think somebody's actually going to have to make money producing a good steam car before anyone will take a serious look. This is a LOT tougher than demos, but the bright side is that it could be in very limited production, even pilot production, or kits, starting with the tiny but very reaby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Harry, Very good, that is what I figured from your first description but wasn't sure. My disk condenser sketches are just my interpretation of _your_ idea, maybe different in minor details. (Likewise the "Vee Tube" condenser is based on a Philips stirling engine radiator, later adapted for steam cars by Saab, & I got the idea from them via Peter Heid, though I have some possby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Scott, More complex yes, and an extra HP loss from the pump, but spray condensing is very workable IMO. It is possible that the water may need several passes to get the same heat transfer for the same sized heat exchanger, but careful temperature control of condensate (don't run too much water thru spray) could minimize that. Keep output of spray condenser as close as possible to saturateby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Well, looks like the scans posted okay, but my browser displays them Huge -- they fill up the whole window and then some, and lots of scrolling left/right and up/down are needed to see everything. Hope nobody else has this problem. If nothing else, you can save them to disk temporarily, and open them in a photoshop or other graphics program, where they can be quickly re-sized for viewing at a gby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Harry, Let's see if this works. I am trying to post 3 "napkin-grade" sketches. Two show the "rotary condenser" idea, the other shows the very different "Vee Tube condenser" idea. The rotary condenser is a stack of closely-spaced hollow disks which are fed steam from a central tube which rotates as a unit with them. When the disks rotate, air is drawn throuby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Harry, I'm not sure I understand how the Cyclone engine condenser works. Are the disks hollow? My idea was to make them hollow, with steam inside and airflow outside. Use rotating seals for steam inlet & water outlet. I don't like the rotating seals part. I'm going to try scanning and posting a sketch. Don't want to go into too much detail on my general condenser ideas because tby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
How about a human assistant to read-aloud the posts and type in replies via dictation? This might actually be cheaper and easier overall, considering the cost and hassle of the hardware and software. Might be a good gig for some bookish/computerish neighborhood kid -- beats delivering papers, mowing lawns, or babysitting. Local schools or an ad in the paper should bring in applicants. Give kiby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Harry, Great condenser idea! Condensate should get thrown off the internal surfaces by centrifugal force, avoiding water-coating of surfaces, which as Peter Heid has noted cuts heat transfer. Wonder if it would be worth trying a very similar condenser with air inlet holes thru disks at center, disks spaced very close together, and have the whole thing run as its own (Tesla type) fan, withby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
My pleasure, Ben. Always like steam yakkin'. Good point on insulating burner plates -- that could be a whole thread by itself (as could powdered/mashed potatoes). I am building an experimental slotted "v-burner" with almost no uninsulated top surface on plate, just to see how (& if) it runs. Currently stalled on workbench due to biz distractions. Congratulations on your quiet bby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Based on a long-ago thread, possibly at Stanleysteamers.com, I recently entered the following in my notebook. Apologies to whoever's comments led to this theory, can't remember who at the moment. This is regarding the "howling" sound made by some "premix vaporizing burners", mainly Stanleys. Steam cars should be silent. ========================== Burner Howling Cycleby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Way to go, Harry! I have been following the reports on your powerplant with interest, sounds good! Those "we're gonna shut you down" guys are just blowhards. I finally figured out the deal with that. We all run into idiots who say "the oil/auto/whatever companies are gonna shut you down". Well, my theory is that now and then one such tinfoil hatter realizes in mid-sentby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Thanks for the info, Frank! Interesting history. Turns out I was using the word incorrectly. Now we know. Peterby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Webster's 9th sez: "Sirocco ... 1 a.) a hot dust-laden wind from the Libyan deserts that blows on the northern Mediterranean coast chiefly in Italy, Malta, and Sicily. b.)a warm moist oppressive southeast wind in the same regions." Two alternate spellings, with and without the inital "c". From Italian, "scirocco", from Arabic "sharq", meaning "east&by Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Maybe I am off base on this, but I have seen "scirocco" and "squirrel cage" used interchangeably so many times over the years that I have come to think of "scirocco" as just another way to refer to a "squirrel cage" blower. Perhaps this is careless usage, or perhaps "scirocco" started out as a brand name which was common enough that it became aby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Looks great, Simon! Outstanding job! Peterby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Bill, Quite a challenge, but it looks doable. For sure, the existing steam LSR record (currently held by the car Jim Crank designed, not the 1906 Stanley racer, IMO) is beatable, without too much HP, efficiency, or technical difficulty. There are many possible designs which could do it. Maybe even a straight Williams Cycle engine? Best of luck with your project! Peterby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi George, Yes, the source is the May, 1918 issue of The Journal of the Society Of Automotive Engineers, pages 13-19. John Sturgess of the Stanley Motor Carriage Company, in an article entitled "The Case For The Steam Car", stated (page 17): "A stock engine under test-block run has frequently operated with a steam consumption of 16 to 17 lb. per hp-hr., a remarkable result fby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Bill, Don't know if you've seen it yet, but check out the March 2005 issue of "Hot Rod" magazine. On pp. 78-83 is an article on the piston driven land speed record. Currently at 417 mph, set in 2004; the record holder thinks 500 mph is doable. For the 417 mph record, they estimate that they were developing about 3,000 hp.. Peterby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
oops, it still doesn't display it. How about this after the http & www: stanleysteamers.com/lamont-1.htm Peterby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
The full url for George's Lamont boiler article is: Doesn't look like the new Phorum displays the whole url, at least not on my browser. Peterby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Bill, Try for George's great article on the Lamont boiler. Contains a neat table with weights, sizes, square footage, steaming/firing rates, etc of several different types of steam car boilers. Useful info for rough estimates on various boilers, not just Lamont-type boilers. The Stanley company did factory dyno tests on their engines and reported 16-17 lb/hp/hr steam consumption at shby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Andy and Bill, Right, compressing to a given pressure, smaller clearance means less work. I thought you wanted to lower the compression target pressure for more mep. Oops. The Williams engine (in "Williams Cycle Mode" eliminated overcompression by simply designing the inlet valve to lift and vent compressed steam back into inlet manifold when cylinder pressure starts to exceedby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Hi Bill, You mean by _increasing_ clearance volume (with same xh timing) you can cut compression work. Less clearance means compressing the residual exhaust steam into a smaller volume and thus higher pressure/more compression work. But with auxiliary exhaust valves, you can control compression as desired, with the right design. Good for starting too. In the Williams Cycle, final compressiby Peter Brow - SteamStuff
Bill, If I'm not mistaken, the Williams engine in full "Williams Cycle" high-compression mode had an MEP of 50 psi.. That is the claim in their ca 1958 paper on the Williams Cycle (TSA, Vol.1 #1). Compression increased efficiency but reduced net work. Reports on later Wms engines indicated that "Rankine Cams" were fitted, which could be engaged for lower compression andby Peter Brow - SteamStuff