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Steam related discussions.
Re: ceramic engine - 7 years ago
I definitely think so. See my response here. I've been trying to figure out how to use the dental zirconium ceramics for an experimental engine. Size would be limited to less than a 1" bore, but an oiless cylinder might be possible. I would try a standard model engine lapped piston seal with a zirconium piston and cylinder. Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Is Steam Car Thermodynamic Efficiency Totally Irrelevant? - 7 years ago
Those were the former problems with ceramics. See the ceramic engine reference for some of the advances. Ceramics can be tailored for high electrical conductivity so heat conductivity should follow. Insulating and wear with minimum lubrication properties should help expander design. If you view the referenced video on plastic heat exchangers, you see that plastics can match metals in low tempeby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Is Steam Car Thermodynamic Efficiency Totally Irrelevant? - 7 years ago
Everyone focuses on the engine (expander) section of the steam power plant. I feel it's the heat exchanger sections that need the work. The main issue with high temperature piston expanders is lubrication. Otherwise, just about everything anyone can think of has been tried. Turbines have solved the lubrication issues but are tough to build in small sizes with variable loads. Compact and eby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Is Steam Car Thermodynamic Efficiency Totally Irrelevant? - 7 years ago
But how are you going to match the costs of your Ram truck? It's the huge infrastructure that's been developed over the last century to support IC engine powered vehicles makes them tough to beat. This has nothing to do with relative fuel economy. I haven't priced commercial steam engines or boilers, but new 400 hp crate engines cost $5000 to $6000 with automatic transmission. They run 100,000by lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Steam Tractor of Modern Design - 7 years ago
Another modern design with electronic controls and water lubrication is described here. The materials are exotic and very expensive, however. The model seemed to run very well. With low pressures and rpm seals like teflon may work for a while. However, the unit would be heavier and shorter lived than the above mentioned IC engines. Construction costs probably would be a lot more as well. Modby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Steam Tractor of Modern Design - 7 years ago
For a monotube boiler with all mechanical controls look at the work of John Wetz. A little cleaning up and modern manufacturing could result in a very reparible simple biofuel fired unit. After all John built his steam plants on a shoe string with common, simple tools. He even built a steam powered garden tractor. There is discussion of his control unit on this forum, but I suspect a trip to Tby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: reverse gear for piston valves - 7 years ago
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW6WHGfqetU for an example. The diagram is below. Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Port sizes - 7 years ago
Lots of information on a real uniflow engine project and the forum discussion at http://www.steamautomobile.com/ForuM/read.php?1,23216,page=1 Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: 4 cycle Flash Steam Engine - 7 years ago
I owned a Beetle in the 1960s and one of the first diesel Rabbits in 1979. They both represented out of the box thinking for their time. Because of experiences with computers and NC machine tools in the 1970s, I didn't trust that the early engine management systems would be reliable. The diesel seemed to be the mechanical answer. These days I own a considerably higher performance car that getby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: 4 cycle Flash Steam Engine - 7 years ago
Jeremy, have you checked with Volkswagen? I hear they are considering a low emission replacement for a lot of engines. LOL Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: steam cylinder oil high temperature - 8 years ago
The model flash steam engines run a lot higher temperatures and oil has been an issue. They combine steam oil with a solid lubricant like molybdenium disulfide on the piston. Of course they only need to run a short time. GE did a lot of oil testing in an experimental steam engine. See this thread. http://www.steamautomobile.com/ForuM/read.php?1,23216 Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Natches Steam Engine - 8 years ago
Boilers with names and a couple of other pictures showing the oilers and instrument panel. Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: New rotary expander with only two moving parts. - 8 years ago
The issue with nearly all non piston designs is sealing. A round piston in a round bore can be made to seal fairly well up to high temperatures and pressures with common materials and primitive machinery. Both were available over 200 years ago. As the extensive engineering on Wankel engines proves, it's tough to seal rotaries even with modern materials and machinery. Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Natches Steam Engine - 8 years ago
I took a ride on the Natchez in New Orleans recently and found its engines surprisingly modern. They were built around 1925 and refurbrished around 1970 when they were removed and installed in the Natchez. They are compound double expansion engines with a straightforward valve linkage. Below are two videos. I have pictures, but they are too large. Lohring Miller https://www.youtube.comby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: 4 cycle Flash Steam Engine - 8 years ago
Jeremy, at this point in my life, engineering is my hobby. I love following other's efforts but can't spend the amounts you have developing new things. Even so, you are seriously underfunded. I bet GE spent hundreds of thousands of 1970 dollars on their limited investigation of automobile steam power. Today I would expect it would take at least tens of millions of current dollars to develop anby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: 4 cycle Flash Steam Engine - 8 years ago
I disagree. The last serious attempts at improving automotive size steam power plants happened around 40 years ago with the exception of Cyclone. No one has taken advantage of the huge improvements in control systems since then. They can make up for problems that come from mechanical simplicity ie. monotube boilers. As an example, digital pumps show promise in hydraulic power transmission. Thby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
Rolly Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lohring > Looks like you need to spend more time in the shop > making your ideas into reality. > Rolly > > http://www.locoparts.biz/newpump2.htm#1.5 I'm headed there now. Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
The French system still looks very interesting. I found a list of patents in Ken's post. The important points (with my editing of the Google OCR copy) from patent 1731458 as pointed out above are: "A free piston or plunger 42 in this pump is moved in one direction or on its discharge stroke by shock from the feed pump with the delivery side of which it is in direct communication. The pluby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
Very nice scale pump. I agree that in small sizes there's a lot to be said for steam driven piston pumps. I would get a lot cruder and simpler with the steam cylinder pictured below connected to a simple plunger pump, maybe on both ends. Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
I was thinking about a lot smaller steam plant than an automobile one. The jet pump is the ultimate in simplicity if it would work. In tiny sizes, centrifugal pumps need to run at very high speed for efficiency. Clearances need to be tight as well. A piston pump is lots bigger and heavier, but when you are talking in ounces, the difference is slight. There's no question that a centrifugalby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
How about a steam driven piston pump for circulation? It would run on saturated steam from the separator. If it was designed like the Waterman pump, it would slow down as the steam quality got worse. At a constant firing rate that should result in slowing the circulation so more of the circulating water would turn into steam, speeding up the pump. Since it would be totally inclosed, sealing prby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
Thanks everyone. Those were the answers I was looking for. It seems that the jet pump does need constant input from the feed pump. Even so, the amount of circulation possible would be limited. Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
Rolly Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The C.A. French concept is interesting in theory. > We discussed this back in 2007; I think it was Ken > whom first posted the patent drawings. > The problem with it is the injector working with > the hot boiler water. If you’ve ever used one > you would know they have a hard time starting if > eveby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
Bill Hinote Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lohring: > > The answer lies in the fact that there is a > separate circulation pump in addition to the FW > pump. The circ pump is fed water from the bottom > of the separation tower and typically runs at a > fixed speed. When designed properly to the > desired flow rate an electricalby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
I think you misunderstood. The quote was from someone working on a jet pump for the circulation in the boiler patent below. It was patented by Charles French. I don't understand how you can get enough recirculation with variable flow from the feed pump. I was also very interested if the person I quoted had actually built a Lamont with a jet pump. Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Lamont boiler - 8 years ago
I've been going back through the Lamont threads and would like more information on the International Harvester jet pump recirculation boiler design. I don't understand how recirculation is maintained with variable feed water flow. There must be a bypass scheme. A quote on a similar Lamont design: "I think I finally have the final objection overcome in my forced recirc boiler scheme. Theby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Experimental engine - 8 years ago
You might consider coating the aluminum piston. Check out Tech Line Coatings. http://www.techlinecoatings.com/hi-performance/bs-internal-engine-coatings.html Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Experimental engine - 8 years ago
Mike, it sounds like you have an excellent setup. My experience is with an inertial dyno, but I plan to test my 23 cc steam engine with a water brake because I have an old kart water brake. You are much farther along. Please keep us up to date on your testing. I am especially interested in your steam results. Are you planning higher pressures? Lohring Millerby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: Experimental engine - 8 years ago
We've had experience with several rpm sensors. Our inertial dyno used a magnetic reed that came with the Performance Trends data logger. It got eratic at high rpm. The optical sensor we tried was worse. We used Hall effect sensors on several boat projects and they worked more reliabily under worse conditions. The only problem we had was sensing rpm near the magnetic field and brush noise on oby lohring - SteamStuff
Re: high speed rotary valve - 8 years ago
Bill Hinote Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi all: > > I'd like to clear up a misconception here: > > The Stover engine does NOT utilize a rotary valve. > The term "rotor" has been used in the description > on Tom Kimmel's website and without careful > observation one might be led to believe there's a > rotary vaby lohring - SteamStuff