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Steam related discussions.
Re: Alternative engines - 1 year ago
Rick, nice tubes! That is similar to the latest concept I had using a water tube surrounding a baffled fire tube where the baffling prevents the heat from passing too rapidly through the tubing. The outer water tube would be similar and would use forced recirculation for better efficiency. That was what my brother and I were working on before he had his strokes I'll try to get drawings up to shoby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Engine Materials - 1 year ago
Bill, from what I have read over the years is that yes, hydrodynamic oil lubrication is the best but isn't always achieved. What I personally am looking at for my design is a ceramic type coating that actually bonds with the metal like case hardening. It's coefficient of friction ranges form .02 to .08 depending on the various formulations. But my question is how often in a steam engine do you atby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project - 1 year ago
William, you need lubrication whether using wet or dry steam Water is not a good lubricant but there are oils that can take moderate heat and don't emulsify so that you can separate it out of the condensed steam. Then there is Krytox which can withstand higher temperatures and is supposed to adhere to metal better than oil. It is expensive however. But as for using wet steam don't take my word.by SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project - 1 year ago
William, that is the basic concept for a recirculating steam generator. I do highly recommend using a superheat coil. Rolly has in the past mentioned the added efficiency as have others. What I also remember is that after the dry steam is heated you get to a point where you add more heat but get less additional benefit. This is around 200 degrees F above the dry steam heat. I have read the chartsby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project - 1 year ago
Interesting design Rick.by SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Building help - 1 year ago
What we have that will make this design work better is from the use of a bonded ceramic that infiltrates the metal like case hardening but is almost diamond hard, high temperature, and has a max coefficient of friction of .02 . The inlet valve will allow for as close to 0 space as possible. With the extended chamber that a rotary gives along with extremely low friction the steam can be expandedby SteveW - SteamStuff
Building help - 1 year ago
For a long time now my brother and I have been designing a rotary steam engine. We think we have the major problems fixed however as the saying goes, "The proof is in the pudding" . If any members with machining capabilities, or just interested in this project, is willing to help it would be appreciated. We aren't looking for free work and expect to pay for materials and time. Anyone inby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: start up times - 1 year ago
Just to add my 2 cents in. The best hybrid solution I've ever seen using an IC hybrid has the IC running at a set (most efficient) speed to run a motor/generator system. IC engines at least in the past had one speed that was most efficient with the rest of the time being a compromise between efficiency and power. example my 73 240z got 20 mpg up to around 65 mph. At 70 to 75 mph it got 24 mpg. Youby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Zmirkin, sounds like an interesting design for the pump. Right now what I'm looking at is a pump that is internal and uses high temperature magnets with an electrical field to rotate the shaft. This will work around the problem of pressure while the magnets will take the heat or so the company claims. As soon as my brother has corrected drawings we will see about putting them up. It's slow goingby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Trackless Locomotive - 1 year ago
Interesting there. Over on the recirculating steam generator thread there is discussion going on . My brother and I are doing the math work slowly but steadily towards a larger system. We will be posting as we go so we can get useful critique on things. Once we are sure of the math we'll build and test. Your input would be appreciated if you have the time and interest. Hopefully we will get sometby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
So even a monotube has to be certified now? The recirculating system I'm working on was trying to stay away from a pressure "vessel " by using pipes or tubes.by SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
I have a question about code requirements for the forced boiler. At what point is certification required. Is there currently a minimum volume or is any amount ?by SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Rick, What you, Rolly and Ken have suggested is the direction we have been taking. The design is a burner on top with the hottest flame with the hottest water or steam in the super heater area. I gave my brother a different design idea which we are looking at right now. Would you mind some time talking over phone with us about it sometime? If it sounds reasonable then we can take it to theby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Thank you for all this information. I agree with Rick that you have put a lot of work into it. Right now I'm standing back while my brother does calculations for the steam generator. He is a bit better on the math and I just don't have enough free time to work full time on this. SteveWby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Neat isn't it. My brother has been looking at the Tesla valve.by SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Ken, Currently the feed water will be measured in the side tank with an upper and lower limit.. as we are planning on a closed system we will have a small tank where a feed water will draw from depending on results from the limit switches. For this test boiler the recirculating tubes will be around 1/2 inch and the superheat to be determined as I'm not sure what is needed. To start with I'by SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Ken, I have a copy that I had forgotten about. Many of my books got stored during a fast move from my previous residence. I'll pull it out and go over it again. Internal resistance is something that we had not forgotten about and IF we can figure a way to reduce it I'll bounce it off the phorum members. I'll be working with my brother most of the day on this. Finally have a day off with free timby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Ken, so far you and rolly are both correcting anything we may have wrong and confirming other information. The. Drawing was just meant to show a general layout to get input on the basic design. Your input is a definite help. For the initial radiant coils what formula would you use to figure the radiant output of the flam and the absorption of the coils My brother is already doing calculationsby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Rolly, I think my drawings need to be better as it sounds like what we are trying for is a turbulent flow. I understand what you are saying and I agree that that is what we need. Since we are wanting to use natural gas we will need to size the chamber for that fuel. Unless there is something better to use than ss310 then that is what we will use. I've asked an acquaintance who is a metalluby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Thanks Rolly, I appreciate the information and your help. Even with studying a lot and looking at other folks boilers I still have a lot to learn it seems. SteveWby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
I've checked and the diagram should be showing it as you described. I have a question about the hp though. Isn't it 2550 btu / horsepower? If so 1,200,000 btu should give around 400hp or 320 at 80% efficient. Thanks Steveby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Rolly, I'll get you a better diagram and double check ours. This should show what you described. SteveWby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
The attached picture is basically the layout for the proposed steam generator my brother and I have been working on. It still needs a lot more calculations done and what materials will be best to use within our budget. Given the efficiency of steam engines I am guessing that 200 to 400 hp output from the boiler will be plenty with 800 psi and 800 F . I want to try for 80% efficiency or more withinby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Modern Steam - Formula S Racecar - 1 year ago
Rick, I'm going to take this over to the steam generator topic. I'll save talk about racing for if/when we get the engine up and running.by SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Modern Steam - Formula S Racecar - 1 year ago
Rolly, that sounds like what my brother and I have planned. What he is working on is how much radiant heat coils we will need vs convective coils. We have rough ideas of how much from looking at similar steam generators. We are looking at using DOM tubing with a good safety factor for the pressure. I'm wanting to get around 200 hp out of this system which after unknown efficiencies of the engine mby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Rolly, I remember seeing you posting that pump and schematic. Thank you for reposting it and the information. What I plan on doing shouldn't give me as much problem on strength and sealing. I am looking at having a pump inside the reserve tank with a external magnetic coupling to drive it. Between new insulations and ultra high temperature magnets I think it might work. You can now buy a magnet thby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Modern Steam - Formula S Racecar - 1 year ago
Rick, I plan on putting all information up on the forum and hope for a lot of good information and critique. I very much doubt that anything we will come up with would be patentable or worth trying to patent and would rather have any insights and plans available for the club even if it turns out to be what not to do. Expect more information and drawings on the steam generator thread sometime tonby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Modern Steam - Formula S Racecar - 1 year ago
I can understand your skepticism on the coating which I originally came across here in the forums. In 2010 a study performed by the DOE came out concerning its properties and development by ames laboratories. I have been in contact with the company that did hold use of the patent, NewTech Ceramics and am now keeping up with the new company Elas LC . I can email you a copy of the old and a bit outdby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Force circulation steam generator design - 1 year ago
Rick, I'm finally back and plan on getting my steam generator built. I'll be getting with my brother tomorrow and hopefully putting up a lot of information. Pricing and cost estimates, and sourcing materials will be needed then finding someone to help build and test the generator. We finally have the money to start doing this as well as looking into building the actual engine. But the engine isby SteveW - SteamStuff
Re: Modern Steam - Formula S Racecar - 1 year ago
Ken, you and rickh have both given me a lot to think about and also brought up a question or two at the least. On FMEP the lower the friction the lower the MEP can be for expansion? Can you tell me what the coefficient of friction a typical steam engine will see compared to an IC engine? The reason I'm asking is that the coating I plan on using in my experimental engine has as a coefficient betweby SteveW - SteamStuff