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Steam related discussions.
Re: General Electric steamers - Today
Hi Rick, Those are good sources. The flash and semi-flash boilers are essentially the same in that they are both once-through designs -- pump water into one end and steam comes out the other. The flash boiler is kept red hot and water "flashes" into steam on contact -- which is easier said than done due to the Leidenfrost effect -- which is what lets a drop of water dance on top ofby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: General Electric steamers - Today
Hi Rick, I'm still working on the article and haven't even gotten to the control systems -- yet -- they patented a plethora of the things. All that said, they tried to steal the Newcomb flowmotor, just like Rollin White did, later. I have no idea why people couldn't just pay royalties to Edward C. Newcomb. GE also patented a few different monotube boilers and also that weird cast metal finneby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: General Electric steamers - Yesterday
Hi Rick, I read about that engine a couple of days ago, I get some SAE online magazines. The interesting thing is that much of the efficiency seems to come from flow dynamic computational models -- which are pretty much independent of the opposed piston configuration. This would imply that the Jimmy two stroke diesel configuration would similarly benefit. The basic Jimmy is pretty simple, jusby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: General Electric steamers - 3 days ago
Hi Rolly, In 1898, Elihu Thomson was hoping to get about 30 lbs per hp-hr. This was pretty ambitious, given that engines like those in the Locomobile were close to around 50. As it was, he ended up right around 20 pounds and by 1901 he was getting about 17-1/2 pounds per horse-power hour...or roughly three times better efficiency. Besides uniflow exhaust, he was running poppet valves which aby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: General Electric steamers - 3 days ago
Heck, Tom Kimmel has a duplicate of the wobbler engine used in at least one car. Unfortunately, I am not turning up a lot in the way of drawings, since they never went into production. The GE uniflow engines were using less than half the steam of a Stanley or Locomobile, so there's a lot to be said for them.by frustrated - SteamStuff
General Electric steamers - 5 days ago
Hi All: GE built a number of steam cars back around the end of the 19th and opening of the 20th centuries. These used a number of boiler, engine, and control systems -- some of them quite unique. What really set them apart from contemporaries like Stanley is that they used uniflow engines and, when good superheat was applied, produced about twice as much horsepower per pound of steam consumedby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: 2021 Chicagoland Spring Mini-meet - 12 days ago
Yeah, but if you read carefully, you will find a stinger in there which makes it unacceptable to most people.. ..However, you will be asked to answer a questionnaire about your health when arriving in Canada and will need to acknowledge an obligation to self-isolate for 14 days..by frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: 2021 Chicagoland Spring Mini-meet - 14 days ago
None of the Canadians plan to attend -- the odds aren't looking good for the border to be open in the next 6 weeks. Probably part of the problem is that the vaccine rollout in Canada is severely delayed, making the possibility of transmission worse in both directions. The rumor I'm hearing is July or August -- but things are changing on an almost weekly basis. Regards, Kenby frustrated - SteamStuff
2021 Chicagoland Spring Mini-meet - 14 days ago
The Spring Mini-meet appears to be a "GO" -- at least as of this date. Our expected number of attendees will be below the current state guidelines for meetings and the governor has scheduled a meeting for April 19th at which it is expected that restrictions will be further eased. Given the average age of our membership, I would assume most would be innoculated, by then. Well, I will,by frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Steam turbine driven turbojet - 20 days ago
Your Rankine efficiency would really suck if you condensed at greater than 500F. That might not make to big a difference if you have nuclear power, and can package the reactor in a fairly lightweight incarnation. As far as an engine burning fuel goes, this is a very big hit. Come to think of it, you get a double whammy because the latent heat of vaporization is now higher and you have to rejectby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Alternate condensation process. - 20 days ago
Yup, Related to the lithium-bromide refrigerant systems I learned about in the Navy. Always seemed a bit weird to have a refrigerant system with no compressor and the cooling input energy was live steam. Kenby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Steam turbine driven turbojet - 20 days ago
Strangely enough, over the weekend a friend bought up vapor-recompression and I had to refresh my memory. It should be remembered that the Anderson-McCallum vapor compression system does not do away with the need to cool and condense exhaust steam -- it is simply that you do not condense all the steam. They call the unit a "cooler" instead of a "condenser", but a rose by anby frustrated - SteamStuff
Alternate condensation process. - 21 days ago
I found this patent roughly twenty years ago, meaning it is now safely in the public domain. I just thought I would toss it out as something interesting to contemplate. Any patent with an assignee of Babcock-Hitachi is bound to have some kind of thought involved, even if it may not be practical for implementation in light steam ... or is it? Regards, Kenby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Perkins steam gun - 25 days ago
Even though it would be an automatic weapon, you have to wonder if it wouldn't come under Federal firearms laws...there is no "fire" in the barrel, the propellant is actually a fire suppressant.by frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Perkins steam gun - 26 days ago
OK, I'm getting some good stuff on the Perkins gun -- actually, there were more than one built over a number of years. One of the very last guns is held in the Royal Army collection in the Tower of London and they have been quite nice about forwarding information. Unfortunately, the gun was last disassembled about 50 years ago and no one took photos. So far, only one photo is posted and I am hoby frustrated - SteamStuff
Perkins steam gun - 4 weeks ago
Does anyone out there have any good information on the Perkin's steam gun? The drawings online are semi-legible and the written descriptios are incomplete. There is one good modern photograph of the gun in the possession of the Royal Armory, but it is a single view and so much of the mechanism is hidden. Of course, it is a photo of the assembled gun, so you can only get clues to the interior woby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Self - Regulating Feed Pump - 6 weeks ago
Hi Keith, The underlying principle that water and steam have different physical properties is similar to the Waterman pump -- the actual system design has almost nothing in common. Regards, Kenby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Steam turbine driven turbojet - 7 weeks ago
The draft booster on later Doble cars was no different, in principle, than the turbocharger on my last two cars. It wasn't there to improve heat transfer, for the simple reason that the Doble boilers already had excellent overall efficiency. Once you reach a certain point, there just isn't much of anywhere else to go. The turbine was there to force extra fuel and air into the combustion chamber wby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: High torque transmission - 7 weeks ago
Another advantage of belts is shock loading. Gears have to be designed with a fair amount of excess strength to deal with sudden shock, which is located at just a few gear teeth. Belts are flexible and distribute shock over a longer time frame, making it much smaller.by frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: SACA Facebook page. - 8 weeks ago
Did you try looking under Steam Automobile Club of America?by frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Self - Regulating Feed Pump - 8 weeks ago
Hi Rick, The pressure drop at the needle valve is irrelevant, we don't care about the drop. What we are trying to achieve is the back pressure. The back pressure will be much higher when pumping water than steam, and it is this backpressure that regulates the feed pump. Regards, Kenby frustrated - SteamStuff
Art Gardiner - 8 weeks ago
I am sorry to report that Art Gardiner has died. This certainly comes as a loss to those of us who knew him, and enjoyed his presence at the annual fall meets. He will be sorely missed.by frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Limits of p/T for steam engines - 8 weeks ago
Hi Steam Captain. For solid numbers, you would have to test a given engine. On the other hand, there are references which give approximate friction for various mechanical devices and these numbers can be used to give an initial estimate for engine design. Regards, Kenby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Self - Regulating Feed Pump - 8 weeks ago
Hi Lohring, There are two pumps in the left-hand drawing. The upper one is the control pump which takes a suction at the desired boiler level and discharges back into the boiler. The lower pump is the actual feed pump; it draws water from the day tank, or condenser, and pumps it straight into the condenser. If the upper pump hydrolocks due to a rise in boiler water level, the directly attacby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Self - Regulating Feed Pump - 8 weeks ago
Hi Rolly, I guess I have to classify a monotube as a boiler simply because I have seen engineering articles about 190 years old that refer to them by that name -- as Bulletin editor, I've given other people static about inventing their own terminology for existing hardware and, in fairness, I have to obey the same rules. Computers aren't always an option. There's a group in Cuba looking atby frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Limits of p/T for steam engines - 8 weeks ago
Almost forgot. I think Jay Carter was pushing pressures near 2,200 psi and temperatures around 1,000 F.by frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Limits of p/T for steam engines - 8 weeks ago
Perhaps the most critical factor in establishing high piston expander efficiency is "Friction MEP". We all know what Mean Effective Pressure is, but folks don't talk as much about friction MEP. Basically, it is the MEP the engine would have to generate simply to overcome internal friction, though we could add similar auxiliary loads such as those needed to operate pumps and blowers.by frustrated - SteamStuff
Re: Self - Regulating Feed Pump - 8 weeks ago
Hi Rick The logic is simple. Monotube boilers are unstable because rising water levels increase the amount of boiler tube surface area dedicated to generating steam while, at the same time, reducing the area dedicated to superheating that steam. This means we now have lots and lots of wet steam. Low level gives us a smaller area capable of producing steam but a lot of area providing superheaby frustrated - SteamStuff
Self - Regulating Feed Pump - 2 months ago
Some years back, I had an idea for a feed pump that could control its own operation and, hopefully, be responsive enough to work with a monotube boiler. I took yesterday evening to sketch up a slightly more complete drawing of the idea, plus a variant. The hydrolock version is on the left. The engine turns a drive eccentric which in turn, causes a lever to rock on a spring-loaded pivot. Thisby frustrated - SteamStuff
SACA Facebook page. - 2 months ago
I'm not precisely sure what is going on. I created the SACA Facebook page back in late Fall of 2012, when I was recovering from my heart attack. I was gratified that we reached 900 "Likes" just before Christmas -- not that this is a huge amount -- an average of approximate 110 likes per year. In the last day, we've gone over 1,000 likes, meaning in about 1-1/2 months we've about matchby frustrated - SteamStuff