911 WTC collapse

I almost don’t want to bring this up here but I would like some opinions from people outside of the usual company I keep. The subject involves the collapse of The WTC buildings on 911 and if the buildings were capable of self-collapse or if demolition charges were needed to assist the fall. If some here with related technical backgrounds could comment on the science of the matter I would be interested.

My opinion is the buildings collapsed from the heat without the need for explosives but maybe I am way off on this one.

Hello Kevin,

Not an explosives expert of course but I did listen to some intelligent discussion on the subject. The opinion was that there was enough heat generated by the fuel to seriously weaken the steel.

Building seven was brought down by explosive charge as was one of the other ones. I have heard eyewitness accounts from someone who was in one of the other buildings. Explosive charges were definatly going off.

There was a video taken of the New York skyline from a non CNN angle by a tv camera just panning the skyline during an interview with Tom Clancy the writer. In it is shown the dust from the demolition of one of the buildings close to the first tower to crumble. The dust rose about 300 Ft or so and soon after the tower crumbled. It appeared that perhaps the shaking of the blast hastened the fall of the tower. The original tapes were confiscated but the show was live and some one recorded it.

We must remember that the first bombing of the WTC in I think 93 was a sting operation by the FBI that went bad. Reported in the NY Times. The FBI recruted the guy who found the "crazys" to do the job, provided the truck, bomb and plans then they couldn't get the right parking spot and parked 12 ft too far away from the colume. They later tracked the "hired help" down and arrested them as terrorists. I understand the guy they hired got a million and is in the witness protection program.

The people in the Pentagon were warned about twenty minites before the Pentagon was hit and some were about two blocks away and running when it happened. All of the evidence suggests a missile not a jumbo jet. Not one turbine blade was found or plane part. The hole was too narrow and way to deep for a plane. What happened to the plane is un known.

I have seen the seismic recordings and other evidence from the federal building explosion. Definitly two or more explosions, a big dull thud and then a very sharp spike. The ATF was carrying unexploded bombs out afterwards. Parts of the roof were torn away that were not in the line of sight of the "fertilizer truck". Many of the ATF employees said they were paged and told to come in late. Many showed up just after the explosion in full bomb gear that takes 1/2 hr to put on. One of the witnesses who had earlier asked about why explosives were being taken into the building was seen there helping after the explosion by several who knew him. He was later reported as dead from the explosion. Others were disappeared.

If you watched the news reports you can notice that every day the crater under the fertilizer truck got deeper and deeper, as if to try and convince everyone that the truck bomb really was big enough.

The real mystery to me isn't how or that a corrupt government could do such things. All govenments seem to go bad if the people are not vigilant, ours is really no different. It is that so many people bury their heads in the sand and pretend it's all ok.

Patriotism, the refuge of scoundrals, we are watching it in action one more time.

Oh Well ------------- Bill G.

Bill, I typically don't buy into these conspiracies, then my friends told me to watch this video called "loose change". Some of the stuff was speculation but overall it changed my opinion greatly. Here is a link to the video if anyone has time, kind of long but worth watching in my opinion. [video.google.com] The most interesting part to me is the object on the bottom of the second plane.

Hello Kevin,

That video does a good job of summing it up. Discoverys are still ongoing I believe, with a lot of little pieces of information comming out here and there. Now knowing that the pentagon was evacuated from a bomb threat 20 minites before says there were definite pentagon conections directly or indirectly.

The problem is that untill a great many people start demanding independent investigations and government accountability not much will change. With a controlled press it is hard to get the people behind any consensis. The American people still have some growing up to do. So much wealth and good times has led to way too much complacency about our leadership.

Times are geting rough for the Bush administeration. I believe the "approval rating" is at an all time low of 38%. With the next elections comming up I would expect another "terrorist" attack to help bolster the polls. "Condition red, vote for us---condition red, vote for us." " Oh the hell with voting, we'll do the counting our way."


Anyway Kevin the video says enough to jump start anyones thinking on the subject of our own governments involvement in the disasters of 911. Tell your neighbors, tell your friends, is about all most people can do. Untill public awarness and concern is high enough to do something about it, nothing worthwhile will be done. Even if one person could push a button and blow em all to hell it would be a worthless exercise as there are more Chenys, Bushs, Rumsfeilds, Ashcrofts, Gonsolouses, and Hitlers of all sorts waiting in the wings to take their place. There always has been, and an unaware and complacent public will give them their chance.


Anonymus Bill

Hey,,whats Ross Perot doing lately,,,Seems like that noisy corner is unusually silent,,,not typical ,, whats wrong here,,,Oatis Chandler died a week ago yesterday,,17 page obit in L-A times /google Seems like he went to school in J Leno's hometown,,small world,,,Ben

Decent journalists who are not afraid of some controversial investigative reporting and an organization to back them up. Imagine what a difference that would make in this country today. Otis Chandler and his news organization might have made a difference if this was 40 years ago.

If I had Ross Perots billions I would buy some billboard companys and put the first amendment through it's paces. It might hasten the downfall of an evil empire or get rid of billboards forever, either one would be a world shaking improvement.

Anonymus Bill

Bill, here is a short video of interest, actually just the first 1.5 minutes then the rest is just drama. Do you have any other explanation for what is seen running out of the south tower that doesn't involve iron oxide and aluminum?


[video.google.com]

No Kevin I don't.

If you will notice in that video clip of the bright orange stuff falling shows pieces or globs striking the sides of the window frames as it falls. In doing so the globs burst and brighten much as molten iron would. The globs flow much like a liquid and exit the building much like a liquid so I am assuming the stuff is a liquid.

If one looks at the tower with the antenna as it starts to fall two things are happening. The first is that the roof is collapsing before the rest of the top structure, note the antenna is receding into the roof indicative of an upper core collapse. The second is that the top floors above the plane strike area are starting to tilt radically and slide off of the building. This would have shifted the load away from center had not the core below started collapsing at the same time. As it was the sideways tilt was stopped as the central core below "gave way".

The movie "in plane site" was what I call a "Shockudockumentary". Some of the facts woven into the presentation seemed plausable without much solid background upon which to check them against. The stuff which I believe was bogus in that film was that the planes were anything but the passenger jets commonly believed. I live under a flight path and looking up at the 757s and 767s passing over from slightly different angles convinces me that they are the same. Remember that the video cameras are charge coupled devices and at extreame contrasts and low resolutions pixels can give strange effects. Those images of the planes bellys were very low resolution. Accounting for the missing planes and passengers is another thing.

As I understand it too many people saw a plane heading at low altitude toward the pentagon and the missle theory just doesn't hold up nor is it neccessary. What isn't mentioned in the plane site film is that the windows in the new part of the pentagon are 2" thick lexan or similar. The fact that the plane strike didn't break the windows is irrelevant. Curiously though the turbine wheel or wheels identified are not from a commercial plane but have been identified as from a retired type of large military plane. Unless someone had these hangin on an office wall for a decoration, as I would, there is some splanin to do.

Airplanes are very big things and most of their parts are serial numbered and some damn near indestructable. Identifying aircraft such as these is a slam dunk for legitimate investigators, yet evidently none were allowed to do so.

There are indeed a lot of suspicious things that need investigating here. The problem is we have a government that has done it's level best to hide the truth, stymie any good investigation, publish very misleading information, and interfere with anyone else finding out. It seems totally obvious that they have something to hide and are doing so with their usual incompetance. They are getting better at it though mostly by controlling the press and squelching legitimate investigation, investigation which under the circumstances could no longer be connected with our lying government and still have validity.

Investigate the Murry Federal Building bombing to see the differences in levels of incompetance in doing coverups. That was a blatently obvious govt. job. Many ATF employees were told not to show up that morning.

To me, the fact that our government, or any government could get so corrupted is no surprize. That is the tendency of power, always was and seems like it always will be. As a people, we really can't blame our leaders. It is not that power corrupts as is commonly believed, but that power attracts the corruptable.

We as a people have lost our vigalance, we got too mollified with all the wealth and material goodies, too comfortable. I don't know if, for America, it is too late or not. We still, for a short while at least have the power of the vote but seldom use it well. It does require an informed populace to be effective and that is mostly lost now. The general level of apathy is saddening.

This is Memorial weekend, a time to remember those who gave their lives and fought so we could have the freedoms that our government is taking away.


Anonymus Bill

Kevin,

The following video will help you to connect the dots. [video.google.com]

Regards'
John

A few points about this subject:

Steel gets much weaker above 1550F, that's why steel is rolled or forged orange to red hot. Once the beams holding up the building got above that temp they could not hold the structure up. Since the heat was not uniform in the fire, it would make sense that the initial collapse would be staggered, just like the Minneapolis bridge failure started at one place and cascaded. Once the collapse has started gravity takes over. Part of the problem is that historically the steelwork was covered in a coating of asbestos to slow down the heating, with the hope that the fire department or sprinklers would put out the fire before the steel got hot enough to fail. Around the time the WTC was built they went to other materials because of the hysteria over asbestos. The substitute was not as good, but deemed "good enough". I have seen estimates that the buildings might have lasted up to an hour longer if they had the old system in place. Sorry, but the conspiracy was by Al-Quaida, not Bush. It's just like Kansas City. For anyone that claims that this had to be an inside job, I refer you to the pictures of our embassies in Africa that Al-Quaida bombed. The failure looks just the same. Unless you want to accept that Clinton had our embassies mined for some nefarious purpose, it just doesn't wash