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cyclone engine

Posted by Harry Schoell 
Re: cyclone engine
December 03, 2009 10:32AM
Hello Jeremy,

Yeah, I had a marriage like that once.

Sorry couldn't help it,

Best. ------ Bill G.
Re: cyclone engine
December 03, 2009 11:11AM
LOL Bill,

Thanks for the reply Harry.

Jeremy
HLS
Re: cyclone engine
December 03, 2009 12:16PM
Jeremy
forgot to reply, the primary is from air atomized fuel injectors. they operate from 3 psi to 20 psi
Harry
HLS
Re: cyclone engine
December 10, 2009 03:31PM
Hi Guys
A short video of the Mark 5 running on steam. The condencer which is part of the engine is basicaly the same as the one for air just more convenient. We are very pleased with the preliminary results and will be installing the combustion chamber shortly. This engine and its parts have gone through a lot of testing to get to this point. Extensive testing as well as dyno testing will be forthcoming.

[www.youtube.com]

Harry
Re: cyclone engine
December 18, 2009 03:52PM
Harry,

I may have missed it in the cyclone thread, but I had an question about your water lubrication. I wanted to bring this back to the correct thread for discussion.

Since there is so much current uproar about you using water lubricated cylinders, I can't help but wonder a few things about your engine design. If I may ask, what materials are you using for pistons, rings, and cylinder liner ? I know you said your ring design was not being divulged, but maybe you might tell the material.

Also, I was wondering if your water was injected to the piston for the lubrication ? What temp do your cylinder walls run ?

Is it possible that you are truly ending up with gas bearings as the water flashes to steam and the expanding steam is preventing the piston from contacting the cylinder walls ? A standard gas bearing for a piston will not have enough pressure to overcome the side thrust developed with a trunk piston, but it might with the expansion of steam.

On another related subject, I have studied gas ported pistons and found most research indicates there is little if any ring sealing benefit, and that is only found at high rpms. But maybe if you could use steam to increase the pressure at all rpms it might be of benefit also.

It is hard for me do develop the idea of water to lubricate the rings in a steam engine since normal rings scrape water away so well. There are no long chain molecules to wedge between the parts like oils. If the rings let any water pass, as it would seem necessary for lubrication requirements, then they would not be providing an effective seal. We all know the consequences of a ineffective seal, leakage. Every mechanical seal that uses water for lubrication will have the longest life and least drag with some leakage. Leaking a few drops of water to the environment is far different than leaking a few drops of water into a steam engine cylinder.

Peter Heid
HLS
Re: cyclone engine
December 19, 2009 09:28AM
Hi Peter
The basic of water lube is do not use metal to metal contact as water is an electrical conductor. Metal bearings running in water tend to build an electrical current as a dynamo and as such and attraction occours and then there is spalling. We also use De-ionized water that is first filtered through a reverse osmosis filter. After this it is a choise of materials and shapes and clearances,,, and a lot of hours of testing, hundreds of hours. The bearings are not lubed with steam so the bearings are run cooler than an IC oil lubed engine where the temperture of the oil has to be high enough to remove the water as in this type of engine it is a contaminate as oil is in a high temperature steam engine.

Rolly
I am glad this came up so that I can have an oppertunity to boil your pot and pop your bubblles. LOL. When you were talking about boat prop shafts the wood bearings used a long time ago were were for slow feet per minute operation and as with the rubber cuttless they could not be run with out water. In boats that run at higher speeds the packing in the stuffing box would not survive also with out a water line as the water exited out it lubes the bronze after tube also. In boats with up to 20,000 rpm shafts and running surfface propellors we used different materials as the PV value on the rubber was not high enough. These are still water lubed using contaminated salt water....it is amazing how well this does work. The life of these bearings is dependent on how dirty the water is . In my own boat (75mph surface drive) the same prop shaft is on my second engine, (stock non high performance).
Harry
Re: cyclone engine
December 21, 2009 01:38PM
Boat prop shafts have been lubed with water for a hundred years.
Harry
You believe what you want. Hundred of years we weren’t talking about 75 MPH.
The bronzes used and ground shafting is great bearing surfaces as long as there kept cool. It’s more like water cooling then water lubing.
When Peter Heid posted. What do you know about steam, my first thought was wrong question, it should have been what do you know about water.
If anything it’s an abrasive acid. Superheated steam cuts nice grooves as it turns through ports. You can put your hand in the cuts it makes in turbine blades.
Rolly
HLS
Re: cyclone engine
December 21, 2009 02:47PM
Rolly

On the high speed boats we built , yes we would burn slots in the rudders that was from cavation, the water exploding in the the low pressure area would actualy pull the metal out in a short time. We also had burns in the props untill we went to surface propellors. Electrolis is a different matter I have seen as bronze strut fall off in a week from a stray current at a dock. You are right about the PH of water that is why we use only deionized highly filtered water. Ice is the mediam of which slippery is based and that is a continous film of water. maybe you won't slip in the shower if your feet are hot. Only if they are cool. Also there is NO metal bearing sliding contact in the cyclone water lubed engines.
The next time you come to visit George drive down and let us show you some neat stuff. You know you are very welcome. We enjoy the have professionals visit.

Harry
Re: cyclone engine
December 29, 2009 05:34AM
Hi Harry!
Hope you're enjoying the holidays! Have you ever heard of "bunker fuel"? It seems it is left over gunk from oil refineries, that is full of sulfer and looks like asphalt. Most of the world's ships run on it, because there are no pollution laws in international waters, and it is dirt cheap compared to diesel. I read where 16 large cargo container ships pollute as bad as all the cars in Europe per year when they are running on bunker fuel. There are 100,000 ships out on the oceans using this crapola for fuel! Do you think the Cyclone engine could run on this gunk, and still minimize pollution? It has a 4.5% sulfer content.
Today on an algae oil board, was the first time I had ever heard of the stuff, and it's not making my tree hugging butt very happy to learn about it! LOL! Happy New Year to you!
My Best as always! Ernie
Re: cyclone engine
December 29, 2009 05:21PM
I can not imagine any engine running clean using that fuel.

[en.wikipedia.org]

To run that is a car you would have to heat it to get it to flow into the boiler.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2009 06:15PM by Brent Laird.
HLS
Re: cyclone engine
December 29, 2009 06:28PM
Hi Ernie
A merry Christmass and a great New Year to all


Sulfer is a problem Clean coal has it removed however it cost twice as much as dirty coal but only a tenth of diesel. I think the addition of lime to the combustion would remove it, I am not sure. Water contamination would generate sulfuric acid. I will talk to my friend Jim Moden about this. this is up his alley. He invented Moden fuel for underwater craft using a cyclone engine. I feel Coal would be a better fuel because of the cost but we could use the bunker and with out smoke. Any hi compression engine is going to be dirty ie, diesel nitrious oxide. particals, and the real killer that you donot hear about benesepyrine ( spelling?) a realy bad carcinagine 40 times that of cigaretts. I have a dream..... sucking the algea and plankton from the sea water to run the engine. Most would be extracted at dockside. I saw a water algea seperater while in DC that was real neat and could do a great job of this. A large whale will produce about 300hp going through the water running on plankton at 25% efficency......nice dream
Harry
Re: cyclone engine
December 30, 2009 12:45AM
Hi Guys,

Why wouldn't the recently developed digester that turns garbage and organic waste into clean fuel be of use with this bunker fuel?

Best, ---- Bill G.
Re: cyclone engine
December 30, 2009 01:24AM
Clean coal is a relative term. There really is no such thing as clean coal. Maybe less sulfur and such but you still have heavy metals such as mercury, uranium, and thorium in the coal.

Bunker fuel is the stuff left over after they take the good stuff out of the oil. It does no good to run it through another digester because that is what a refinery does. Now if you could take out the sulfur at the refinery that would be good. But the cost is very high to do that and that why it is not done.

I have attached a file written taken from this site.
[www.energyfromthorium.com]

Consider Ammonia generated from cheap thorium nuclear power used as a motor fuel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2009 01:25AM by Brent Laird.
Re: cyclone engine
December 30, 2009 06:44AM
Can you take the Fuel to a new topic, Harry answered the question re: Cyclone

Thanks
Scott
Re: cyclone engine
December 31, 2009 04:44PM
I am closing this Topic for posting, please continue here ---> [www.steamautomobile.com]

Best,
Scott Finegan
Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed.
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