cyclone engine
Posted by Harry Schoell
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Re: cyclone engine July 15, 2008 10:26AM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
Start..
Most of the folks on this thread are professional and trade information to advance the science. It appears you are a novice and do not know what a Rankine cycle engine is. We test a lot of systems and have Cyclone for only 4 years the IC engine has been under developement for over a hunderd years and fuel consumption is still the same And they are dirty and fuel spicific. Rankine cycle power plants started at about 8% efficency and were dirty they now can operate over 46% and are clean compared to your car. We are testing different engine types for each use and and a lot of different parts. We burn a lot of different fuels. We are compiling a lot of data so production engines can be built. If you are a licence you would be privilaged to all the test information.
Harry
Most of the folks on this thread are professional and trade information to advance the science. It appears you are a novice and do not know what a Rankine cycle engine is. We test a lot of systems and have Cyclone for only 4 years the IC engine has been under developement for over a hunderd years and fuel consumption is still the same And they are dirty and fuel spicific. Rankine cycle power plants started at about 8% efficency and were dirty they now can operate over 46% and are clean compared to your car. We are testing different engine types for each use and and a lot of different parts. We burn a lot of different fuels. We are compiling a lot of data so production engines can be built. If you are a licence you would be privilaged to all the test information.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine July 15, 2008 02:09PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
The purpose of this sight is to share information with other enthusiast of steam automobiles not for the reason of stock bashing. I am sure you will get information from Ford GM or other company, please try. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. I am sure you could not even read a PV diagram or a moller chart. Please do your stock bashing somewhere else.
Harry
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine July 15, 2008 02:54PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
Harry,part of my thinking was that the 100-300MPG vehicles would serve a purpose for the interum until the automakers retool the setups for our cars and trucks to accomodate your engine. We all know how fast Detroit usually moves to change though! My last 2 Buicks were 5 years apart and had the same interiors, motors, and drive train! "IF" Detroit puts the hammer down, then throw my thoughts out the window! LOL! I would have to see it to believe it though! Also, I had the impression that new productive fuel refineries for algae, switchgrass, and trefoil were at least a 5-10 years away, and new drilling was futile to try to keep up with demand,therefore another reason I like the toy cars at present.. That and the fact, that they sure seem to be pounding "OIL SHORTAGE" down my throat in the news media. My third reason for liking the Aptera is that it is classified and licensed as a motorcycle in California. And as I've gotten to old to ride the real thing any more, that would probably still do the trick for me! LOL! If the Aptera had a Cyclone engine in it I would even be happier. I'd be cool again heading to the grocery store or casino in my Aptera Cyclone! LOL! I remember when they said the personal computer would be a flash in the pan, so toy or not it may have a following. I truly appreciate our conversations here Sir, and I am one of your biggest fans, so please don't misconstru any of my opinions as ever being negative or argumentative. They are not meant to be, I'm just an old fat Finlander with a big mouth! LOL! Take care Harry! Don't forget about that "all work and no play" thing around the shop! I can only guess how busy you folks have been. A poster on another board said he even got an email reply on a weekend from Frankie. Give yourselves some luvin' from the shareholders and people who love clean air. I'm gonna try and zip it for a while cuz I know you can do without the million questions I have! LOL! Later my friend..
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Re: cyclone engine July 15, 2008 03:49PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine July 15, 2008 06:15PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 73 |
Hello Harry,
I am new to this forum, but have been following your engine development through other channels. I am just curious about the reason for the lack of a demo automobile. How much work/money is needed to replace the engine of used car with a cyclone to show the public the saving of fuel? My feeling is that if the saving of fuel is shown in a way the public can understand, like mpg, it would be easier to bring this technology to the masses.
I am new to this forum, but have been following your engine development through other channels. I am just curious about the reason for the lack of a demo automobile. How much work/money is needed to replace the engine of used car with a cyclone to show the public the saving of fuel? My feeling is that if the saving of fuel is shown in a way the public can understand, like mpg, it would be easier to bring this technology to the masses.
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Re: cyclone engine July 16, 2008 09:38AM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi MK
As you will notice most of the folks on this foram usually put their name at the end of the text. I have always answered questions from my friends here. We have no intension of installing the Cyclone in an old junk car. This new concept leaves out so many unnecessary parts. We are working on several engine types some of which is for a car and even a truck. A lot of these things will come with time. We have to do it right, not fast and sloppy.
Harry
As you will notice most of the folks on this foram usually put their name at the end of the text. I have always answered questions from my friends here. We have no intension of installing the Cyclone in an old junk car. This new concept leaves out so many unnecessary parts. We are working on several engine types some of which is for a car and even a truck. A lot of these things will come with time. We have to do it right, not fast and sloppy.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine July 16, 2008 10:38AM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
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Re: cyclone engine July 16, 2008 01:05PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Bill,
It depends on the alloy. We are using 1100 as it is a heat exchanger material. We have had no problem with this. using annieled we can stamp it to shape then heat treat it for hardness. Anodizing is also a good idea. 6061 and other marine grades will also work. Stay away from 2024.
Harry
It depends on the alloy. We are using 1100 as it is a heat exchanger material. We have had no problem with this. using annieled we can stamp it to shape then heat treat it for hardness. Anodizing is also a good idea. 6061 and other marine grades will also work. Stay away from 2024.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine July 16, 2008 01:23PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine July 16, 2008 01:35PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 1,769 |
Good advice Harry, you can’t generalize today on any metals. Aluminum can range from 5000 T to 85,000 T and probably higher today.
The 1xxx is 99% aluminum
2xxx are copper based and are some of the strongest aluminum alloys. The space shuttle capsule is made from this group.
3xxx are Manganese based alloys; a lot of castings fall in this group.
4xxx are silicon based alloys
5xxx are magnesium based alloys (Marine grade alloys) nice stuff.
6xxx are magnesium – silicon based alloys (heat treatable)
7xxx are zinc based alloys
8xxx are other major alloying elements.
Today there are many variations in each group.
Stainless is another group you should be careful of.
The 1xxx is 99% aluminum
2xxx are copper based and are some of the strongest aluminum alloys. The space shuttle capsule is made from this group.
3xxx are Manganese based alloys; a lot of castings fall in this group.
4xxx are silicon based alloys
5xxx are magnesium based alloys (Marine grade alloys) nice stuff.
6xxx are magnesium – silicon based alloys (heat treatable)
7xxx are zinc based alloys
8xxx are other major alloying elements.
Today there are many variations in each group.
Stainless is another group you should be careful of.
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Re: cyclone engine July 19, 2008 04:38PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
Hi Harry!
I should have known I would run across something to make me go... what the? Found this company on the same site as Cyclone, for the top 100 enviro friendy inventions. (Cyclone was listed at #26 by the way) They have a less than optimal website but I found the motor very intriguing. Thought it might interest you even though it is not steam powered. Kind of looks similar to the way your compression cycle works only the pistons are really odd. The company is in Australia and called Engineair. Here's the web site: [engineair.com] Have fun!
Ernie
I should have known I would run across something to make me go... what the? Found this company on the same site as Cyclone, for the top 100 enviro friendy inventions. (Cyclone was listed at #26 by the way) They have a less than optimal website but I found the motor very intriguing. Thought it might interest you even though it is not steam powered. Kind of looks similar to the way your compression cycle works only the pistons are really odd. The company is in Australia and called Engineair. Here's the web site: [engineair.com] Have fun!
Ernie
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Re: cyclone engine July 19, 2008 04:45PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
That's not the web address I typed in.. and it doesn't work... Let me try something else... [www.engineair.com.au]. fingers crossed..
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Re: cyclone engine July 19, 2008 06:40PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
One more Harry then I will try and shut up again. (I hope! LOL!) Just thinking that a piston configuration similar to what I think I see on the Engineair site, as being a unit that could be made very compact and might possibly make the minigenerator for the British even smaller. Or maybe a possible fit for chain saws and weed wackers... I'm going to drink beer and talk smart now, so you should be rid of me for the weekend! LOL! Have a great W/E!
Ernie
Ernie
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Re: cyclone engine July 21, 2008 01:12PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine July 24, 2008 02:33AM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
Thanks Harry for the reply.. It just really looked slick to me.. Too many years on the outside construction side of the world for me I guess.. When things looked like they could fit, I usually made them fit! A 2# linemans hammer and a 3 ton chain hoist, worked wonders! LOL! Talk to you later. Ernie
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Re: cyclone engine September 05, 2008 11:38AM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Guys
We are off today to the small engine show in Milwaukee Sept 9 to 11
We have been overwelmed with projects so We won't be attending SACA this year. seven projects at one time and growing is getting tough. Hope some of you will attend. We are showing the latest version of the WHE engine that will go to production , also the GENIE the small generator the size of a large coffee cup. of course the lawn mower and 10kw generator. New air quality laws sure will do us well for the mower engine we will be showing our tests on this.
Harry
We are off today to the small engine show in Milwaukee Sept 9 to 11
We have been overwelmed with projects so We won't be attending SACA this year. seven projects at one time and growing is getting tough. Hope some of you will attend. We are showing the latest version of the WHE engine that will go to production , also the GENIE the small generator the size of a large coffee cup. of course the lawn mower and 10kw generator. New air quality laws sure will do us well for the mower engine we will be showing our tests on this.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine September 20, 2008 02:09PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
Hi Harry!
I just wanted to thank you folks for the hospitality, and say congratulations on a job well done at the Milwaukee show! I had a great time even though it was too short as far as I was concerned. Did the new truck give you any more trouble on the way home? I was really busy this week and didn't get a chance to pick up the polywater, but will try to do it first thing next week. I hope the other visitors to your booth enjoyed the education as much as I did! Take care my friend!
Ernie
I just wanted to thank you folks for the hospitality, and say congratulations on a job well done at the Milwaukee show! I had a great time even though it was too short as far as I was concerned. Did the new truck give you any more trouble on the way home? I was really busy this week and didn't get a chance to pick up the polywater, but will try to do it first thing next week. I hope the other visitors to your booth enjoyed the education as much as I did! Take care my friend!
Ernie
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Re: cyclone engine December 01, 2008 09:13AM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 01, 2008 07:51PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 1,519 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 12, 2008 04:58PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
Here's a short video of the lawnmower engine running at Harry's shop recently. Thanks to piecemaker for the video! [piecemakersperspectives.blogspot.com]
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Re: cyclone engine December 13, 2008 12:06PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Guys
The pics of the lawn mower are of the combustion chamber turning on and off. It took 3 mounths of R&D to get a realy good system. It will raise 1000F steam in 9 seconds.... yes 9 seconds from cold. We are very pleased.of course a warm system is quicker. The base engine is going through further tests.
Hi Jeremy
Sorry for the slow reply, real busy. The WHE is going to be in the next issue of the Bulletin. Basicly it is very simple 25 cu in 6 cy radial very inexpensive to mass produce. It is 15ft lbs torque per 100psi self starting with 34% cuttoff. It is rated for continous duty at 200psi but could be used in a small tractor ( I was so impressed with Jim Tanjmans tractor) At 300PSI with 45 ft lbs torque. A lot of testing is going on with this engine and will go to production soon. Just recived anouther 29 engine blocks this week for testing.
Harry
The pics of the lawn mower are of the combustion chamber turning on and off. It took 3 mounths of R&D to get a realy good system. It will raise 1000F steam in 9 seconds.... yes 9 seconds from cold. We are very pleased.of course a warm system is quicker. The base engine is going through further tests.
Hi Jeremy
Sorry for the slow reply, real busy. The WHE is going to be in the next issue of the Bulletin. Basicly it is very simple 25 cu in 6 cy radial very inexpensive to mass produce. It is 15ft lbs torque per 100psi self starting with 34% cuttoff. It is rated for continous duty at 200psi but could be used in a small tractor ( I was so impressed with Jim Tanjmans tractor) At 300PSI with 45 ft lbs torque. A lot of testing is going on with this engine and will go to production soon. Just recived anouther 29 engine blocks this week for testing.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine December 13, 2008 10:24PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 73 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 15, 2008 02:52PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 10 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 15, 2008 04:19PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
Hi Billybob..
Ecuse me for jumping in here, but this was from Harry on one if the other threads here a short while back. This is for the Waste Heat Engine but I think the specs are in the ballpark.. I would think the generator portion would double the weight.
Hi
I can't quote prices yet on the WHE engine however it will be quite reasonable.
The max out put is about 17 hp at 200 psi at 3000 rpm. It could be operated at 300psi for a non industrl rating. We are still running more tests before release to the public.. are getting close. This engine is very simple. The first version had a slightly better efficency but not enough to justify the cost. Very pleased with this little machine. The engine alone is 14.25"X14.5"X 10" high and weighs 18 lbs.
Harry
Hope this helps a little. Regards, Ernie
Ecuse me for jumping in here, but this was from Harry on one if the other threads here a short while back. This is for the Waste Heat Engine but I think the specs are in the ballpark.. I would think the generator portion would double the weight.
Hi
I can't quote prices yet on the WHE engine however it will be quite reasonable.
The max out put is about 17 hp at 200 psi at 3000 rpm. It could be operated at 300psi for a non industrl rating. We are still running more tests before release to the public.. are getting close. This engine is very simple. The first version had a slightly better efficency but not enough to justify the cost. Very pleased with this little machine. The engine alone is 14.25"X14.5"X 10" high and weighs 18 lbs.
Harry
Hope this helps a little. Regards, Ernie
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Re: cyclone engine December 15, 2008 04:20PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
HI Bill
The base test 10 KW engine is 2 cylinder and would need to be aprox 18 hp. 18 X .746= 13.4KW X dynamo loss X.8 = 10.7KW So it is better to talk hp as dynamo efficency will vary from 60% to 95% depending on cost. We do have some very small light weight designs in this area but they cost more. the 2cylinder is about the same size and weight of an air cooled gas engine of the same HP.
Harry
The base test 10 KW engine is 2 cylinder and would need to be aprox 18 hp. 18 X .746= 13.4KW X dynamo loss X.8 = 10.7KW So it is better to talk hp as dynamo efficency will vary from 60% to 95% depending on cost. We do have some very small light weight designs in this area but they cost more. the 2cylinder is about the same size and weight of an air cooled gas engine of the same HP.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine December 15, 2008 04:39PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 15, 2008 05:45PM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 15, 2008 05:59PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 83 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 25, 2008 09:01PM |
Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 4 |
hello, guys
long since the last time I visited this site.
just a question. the Cyclone Engine could use syngas (co + h2, mostly) from woodgas generators? I think the two technologies are a perfect match: an impure fuel, cheap fuel for an undemanding engine that can burn just about anything (including tar, ash, etc).
Any thoughts?
if any, let me know,
thanks,
ALdreno (Engineer from Brazil)
long since the last time I visited this site.
just a question. the Cyclone Engine could use syngas (co + h2, mostly) from woodgas generators? I think the two technologies are a perfect match: an impure fuel, cheap fuel for an undemanding engine that can burn just about anything (including tar, ash, etc).
Any thoughts?
if any, let me know,
thanks,
ALdreno (Engineer from Brazil)
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Re: cyclone engine December 26, 2008 09:40AM |
Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Al
Syngas is not as good a fuel as some belive foe use in a diesel engine. It requires a full scruber system and even with this expensive system there is still problems with the turbos and intercoolers after 200 hours. Of course this is not a problem in a boiler,however the best way to burn trash or other solids is with fluidized bed combustion. With this or the syngas I would recomend using the SC cyclone engine for the higher efficency. The WHE is about 12% at 600f but is also a very inexpensive amd would work well for small applications.
Harry
Syngas is not as good a fuel as some belive foe use in a diesel engine. It requires a full scruber system and even with this expensive system there is still problems with the turbos and intercoolers after 200 hours. Of course this is not a problem in a boiler,however the best way to burn trash or other solids is with fluidized bed combustion. With this or the syngas I would recomend using the SC cyclone engine for the higher efficency. The WHE is about 12% at 600f but is also a very inexpensive amd would work well for small applications.
Harry
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