cyclone engine
Posted by Harry Schoell
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Re: cyclone engine May 05, 2006 10:24AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Lonny,
Yes we do. One of the first experiments was an opposed engine. We called it the box engine, it had problems however we have learned a lot. The single cylinder, what we would call the first sucessful experiment is horizontal shaft. It can be seen on the website www.cyclonepower.com The vertical shaft actualy did more things. Even multible engines can be installed on a single shaft. also on the website the first 2cylinder has a horizontal shaft vis a gear as the pumps and piping are out side the engilne. The newest version has all this inside.
Thanks for asking
Harry
Yes we do. One of the first experiments was an opposed engine. We called it the box engine, it had problems however we have learned a lot. The single cylinder, what we would call the first sucessful experiment is horizontal shaft. It can be seen on the website www.cyclonepower.com The vertical shaft actualy did more things. Even multible engines can be installed on a single shaft. also on the website the first 2cylinder has a horizontal shaft vis a gear as the pumps and piping are out side the engilne. The newest version has all this inside.
Thanks for asking
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine May 13, 2006 10:12PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 3 |
Thanks Harry, we haven't communicated much but I have been watching the developement of your engine closely. I see so many applications that it could be used for that I have to ask, when do you think it will be place on the open market? I see you have adapted it to a generator has anyone contracted to build and market that yet?
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Re: cyclone engine May 15, 2006 10:24AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine June 02, 2006 02:50PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine June 02, 2006 08:02PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
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Re: cyclone engine June 03, 2006 05:42PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,453 |
Congratulations on your latest patent, Harry!
Belated thanks also for the condenser explanation; after that everything "clicked" into place in my head. Lots of fast-moving steam/air means lots of condensing power "squozen" into a small space. Cyclone is the perfect name; darn near everything is going around and around in there.
Ditto Bill's question about the patent number; also, how long does it take for new patents to show up in the internet patent databases?
Peter
Belated thanks also for the condenser explanation; after that everything "clicked" into place in my head. Lots of fast-moving steam/air means lots of condensing power "squozen" into a small space. Cyclone is the perfect name; darn near everything is going around and around in there.
Ditto Bill's question about the patent number; also, how long does it take for new patents to show up in the internet patent databases?
Peter
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Re: cyclone engine June 05, 2006 01:48PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Peter,
The patent no. has not yet been issued but the application serial no. is 11/410,224
Pictures of it are on page 2 of this thread.
included is the water and steam flow diagrams of the engine.
Harry
The patent no. has not yet been issued but the application serial no. is 11/410,224
Pictures of it are on page 2 of this thread.
included is the water and steam flow diagrams of the engine.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine June 21, 2006 02:52PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine June 21, 2006 02:56PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine June 21, 2006 02:59PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine July 10, 2006 05:03PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Cyclone update
This is anouther artical on the engine. Automotive Design and Production. As you can see we are very serious.
[www.autofieldguide.com]
Thanks for the work of those before us.
Hary
This is anouther artical on the engine. Automotive Design and Production. As you can see we are very serious.
[www.autofieldguide.com]
Thanks for the work of those before us.
Hary
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Re: cyclone engine September 08, 2006 09:56AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Just an up date,
It appears we lost a mounth o well S.. happens
There are newcomers to the chat room who may use some of this info on the cyclone, So look back as this is a truely modern engine. We will be bringing the display generator engine and other hardware to SACA so please come. There are a lot of neat things and as steam entheuest. There is a lot to learn and have fun riding in real steam cars.
We hope to bring this car to the meet next year!
It appears we lost a mounth o well S.. happens
There are newcomers to the chat room who may use some of this info on the cyclone, So look back as this is a truely modern engine. We will be bringing the display generator engine and other hardware to SACA so please come. There are a lot of neat things and as steam entheuest. There is a lot to learn and have fun riding in real steam cars.
We hope to bring this car to the meet next year!
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Re: cyclone engine November 21, 2006 11:42AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Friends,
We will spend the holliday in Houston. We had an excelent Show in Chicago and in San Antanio. On our return we had the pleasure to visit with Jay Carter. He was testing his 30kw wind turbine. what a smart guy and fun host. He showed us his steam car which last ran in the 1970's it appeared in fair shape except for the flat tires, of course 30 year would have taken it's toll. Thanks again Jay.
The SAE small engine conference in San Antonio was also good for us. Any one interested in production ideas should go to these shows. Even the small weed eater motors will require cat converters.
The next show be in Orlando at the end of the mounth where we are showing the 10kw cyclone generator. this engine complete with heat exchanger (boiler) and condencer in one package is about the same size, less weight than the equilivent gas engine. We are finishing the designs on the production version. The combustion chamber is working quite well and the pumps are internal in the condencer pan operating at 190f at 2000psi water lubed and rpm controlled.
Have a good day
Harry
We will spend the holliday in Houston. We had an excelent Show in Chicago and in San Antanio. On our return we had the pleasure to visit with Jay Carter. He was testing his 30kw wind turbine. what a smart guy and fun host. He showed us his steam car which last ran in the 1970's it appeared in fair shape except for the flat tires, of course 30 year would have taken it's toll. Thanks again Jay.
The SAE small engine conference in San Antonio was also good for us. Any one interested in production ideas should go to these shows. Even the small weed eater motors will require cat converters.
The next show be in Orlando at the end of the mounth where we are showing the 10kw cyclone generator. this engine complete with heat exchanger (boiler) and condencer in one package is about the same size, less weight than the equilivent gas engine. We are finishing the designs on the production version. The combustion chamber is working quite well and the pumps are internal in the condencer pan operating at 190f at 2000psi water lubed and rpm controlled.
Have a good day
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine November 22, 2006 02:02PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,038 |
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Re: cyclone engine November 22, 2006 03:21PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Andy,
Still the same, 1000f 2000psi for the 2cyl, 1200f 3200for the 6cyl. The 2cyl has a bump valve and at the limit of the bearing load. the engine efficency is a little less than the 6cyl but is very simple. 1000f is the limit on the valve as it has a spring in the steam line. The bmep are high at these pressures and is exceeding the PV on the 2cy bearings though they are surviving, same ones from the start.
Harry
Still the same, 1000f 2000psi for the 2cyl, 1200f 3200for the 6cyl. The 2cyl has a bump valve and at the limit of the bearing load. the engine efficency is a little less than the 6cyl but is very simple. 1000f is the limit on the valve as it has a spring in the steam line. The bmep are high at these pressures and is exceeding the PV on the 2cy bearings though they are surviving, same ones from the start.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine December 02, 2006 11:29AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Friends,
Just returned from the Power Gen show in Orlando. We were very pleased with this as new contacts were made. Any one doing steam tech should go to these shows as there is a lot of new products of benefit. We are not geting the 'O its just a steam engine' as they would walk away. we are being taken much more seriously and are doing quite well. The sacred cow of the IC engine is loosing it's luster. One thing in point is their poor efficency on gaseous fuels and the narrow band of fuel types used. Amazing all the addon crap and filtors for these engines. Some of these filters are larger than a doble boiler.
In all three shows we were always busy. More than most exibitors.
Harry
Just returned from the Power Gen show in Orlando. We were very pleased with this as new contacts were made. Any one doing steam tech should go to these shows as there is a lot of new products of benefit. We are not geting the 'O its just a steam engine' as they would walk away. we are being taken much more seriously and are doing quite well. The sacred cow of the IC engine is loosing it's luster. One thing in point is their poor efficency on gaseous fuels and the narrow band of fuel types used. Amazing all the addon crap and filtors for these engines. Some of these filters are larger than a doble boiler.
In all three shows we were always busy. More than most exibitors.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine December 02, 2006 08:50PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
Hello Harry,
Sounds great, really glad of the decent reception. Hope something results in a big contract for you and we start seeing Cyclones all over the place. Then I can proudly say " I know the people who did that."
Were there any other types of engines on exibit, such as Sterlings?
Best ------- Bill G.
Sounds great, really glad of the decent reception. Hope something results in a big contract for you and we start seeing Cyclones all over the place. Then I can proudly say " I know the people who did that."
Were there any other types of engines on exibit, such as Sterlings?
Best ------- Bill G.
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Re: cyclone engine December 09, 2006 12:23PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
HI guys,
This thread or products of combustion o-well
We are doing a lot of testing on different fuels in our test combustion chamber. There is so much to learn. We will be installing oxygen sensors next to monitor the best air fuel ratio with different fuels. Air flow over the injector is a lot of trial and error to get it just right. these are views with the outer cover removed to see the igniters. With the cover on the flame runs in circle touching the other igniter. This is the igniter listed in the Bulletin. Of course to little air, incomplete combustion to much loss efficiency. There is a big difference in the aerodynamics of this air flow at the right point of the injector. maybe some of this will help. There is a lot more to its than just the engine. Clean combustion is the main attribute of a steam engine, don't worry I didn't use the G word.
Harry
This thread or products of combustion o-well
We are doing a lot of testing on different fuels in our test combustion chamber. There is so much to learn. We will be installing oxygen sensors next to monitor the best air fuel ratio with different fuels. Air flow over the injector is a lot of trial and error to get it just right. these are views with the outer cover removed to see the igniters. With the cover on the flame runs in circle touching the other igniter. This is the igniter listed in the Bulletin. Of course to little air, incomplete combustion to much loss efficiency. There is a big difference in the aerodynamics of this air flow at the right point of the injector. maybe some of this will help. There is a lot more to its than just the engine. Clean combustion is the main attribute of a steam engine, don't worry I didn't use the G word.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine December 09, 2006 09:12PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
Harry,
Oxygen sensors are sensitive to the type of fuel and additives, meaning they can get wrecked, or worse only partially wrecked which gives bad readings. The old fuel line antifreeze used to mess up oxygen sensors till they changed to a different alcohol. I think but not sure the change was from isopropyl to methyl.
Possibility acetone might. It would be nice if the engine used a sensor off the shelf from the local autoparts store.
Best of fortune with it --------- Bill G.
Oxygen sensors are sensitive to the type of fuel and additives, meaning they can get wrecked, or worse only partially wrecked which gives bad readings. The old fuel line antifreeze used to mess up oxygen sensors till they changed to a different alcohol. I think but not sure the change was from isopropyl to methyl.
Possibility acetone might. It would be nice if the engine used a sensor off the shelf from the local autoparts store.
Best of fortune with it --------- Bill G.
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Re: cyclone engine December 11, 2006 09:17AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Bill,
You are right on about using acetone. We cannot use it with anything automotive. We were using our own special fuel pump for this. Most all test from now on are with less reactive fuels. I was told about some folks puting acetone in with gasoline in their car and I warned them not a good idea as it would form gun cotton if let to stand for any time, also destroy their fuel pump. We used it for safety reasons during initial testing. The BTU's are also very low on acetone.
Harry
You are right on about using acetone. We cannot use it with anything automotive. We were using our own special fuel pump for this. Most all test from now on are with less reactive fuels. I was told about some folks puting acetone in with gasoline in their car and I warned them not a good idea as it would form gun cotton if let to stand for any time, also destroy their fuel pump. We used it for safety reasons during initial testing. The BTU's are also very low on acetone.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine December 11, 2006 10:47AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,441 |
Harry-Bill,
The only fuels that would be relevant to any automotive steam system are: regular pump gasoline, #2 Diesel oil, bio-diesel or pure bio fuel when it becomes available.
Having to add exotic additional fuels in like acetone, alcohol, benzol, etc. are not ones that any car owner will put up with, only fuels that can be obtained at any station, anywhere in the U.S., when on the road. Such added fuels can dissolve the rubber components in fuel systems and create other nasty problems.
Burners can and have been built that run on these available fuels, both atomizing and post mix vaporizing. E-23 went to lunch once, on a bet, burning pure peanut oil and it worked just fine.
JC
The only fuels that would be relevant to any automotive steam system are: regular pump gasoline, #2 Diesel oil, bio-diesel or pure bio fuel when it becomes available.
Having to add exotic additional fuels in like acetone, alcohol, benzol, etc. are not ones that any car owner will put up with, only fuels that can be obtained at any station, anywhere in the U.S., when on the road. Such added fuels can dissolve the rubber components in fuel systems and create other nasty problems.
Burners can and have been built that run on these available fuels, both atomizing and post mix vaporizing. E-23 went to lunch once, on a bet, burning pure peanut oil and it worked just fine.
JC
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Re: cyclone engine December 11, 2006 01:02PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 11, 2006 05:02PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,441 |
Hi Harry,
Indeed this is true. Couple that with the JP fuel the airlines, utility back up powerplants and peak load systems use, and this now becomes a major steam car fuel source.
The Dobles love it; but right now we have to go to the local airport and buy commercial helicopter and private jet fuel by the drum. Inconvenient.
JC
Indeed this is true. Couple that with the JP fuel the airlines, utility back up powerplants and peak load systems use, and this now becomes a major steam car fuel source.
The Dobles love it; but right now we have to go to the local airport and buy commercial helicopter and private jet fuel by the drum. Inconvenient.
JC
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Re: cyclone engine December 11, 2006 06:33PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 11, 2006 09:46PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 336 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 12, 2006 08:45AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Chuk,
What we are using ,just because of what you saying, is de-limonene. It is made from orange peels. Smells like an orange grove,no complants. We hope to be getting you some. Burns just like kerosene, has a slight smoke on startup. BTU is 19500 about the same. Squeeze an orange peel over a match and you wil see it flare.
Harry
What we are using ,just because of what you saying, is de-limonene. It is made from orange peels. Smells like an orange grove,no complants. We hope to be getting you some. Burns just like kerosene, has a slight smoke on startup. BTU is 19500 about the same. Squeeze an orange peel over a match and you wil see it flare.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine December 12, 2006 10:04AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,441 |
Bill,
JP is really highly refined kerosene and smells just like it.
One thing we had to contend with buying jet fuel at the airport. That stuff has some additives in it for high altitude flying, so the guy said. So when the Dobles sat around for a while, the tank smelled like a dead bat cave, really stinks.
Going back and asking why, and was told they drain all parked aircraft tanks every 90 days an put in fresh fuel, otherwise it goes bad.
Back to burning regular commercial kerosene.
JC
JP is really highly refined kerosene and smells just like it.
One thing we had to contend with buying jet fuel at the airport. That stuff has some additives in it for high altitude flying, so the guy said. So when the Dobles sat around for a while, the tank smelled like a dead bat cave, really stinks.
Going back and asking why, and was told they drain all parked aircraft tanks every 90 days an put in fresh fuel, otherwise it goes bad.
Back to burning regular commercial kerosene.
JC
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Re: cyclone engine December 12, 2006 11:33AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
Jim,
Interesting. I wonder what they do with the drained fuel? Diesel and fuel oil smell as I understand, does that have anything to do with how cleanly they are burned or is it just the sulpher and stuff in them?
I know that fuel oil in those Kerosun heaters will drive a person out of the room and out into the cold. The Kerosun's have a large circular wick like a lantern.
Best -------- Bill G.
Interesting. I wonder what they do with the drained fuel? Diesel and fuel oil smell as I understand, does that have anything to do with how cleanly they are burned or is it just the sulpher and stuff in them?
I know that fuel oil in those Kerosun heaters will drive a person out of the room and out into the cold. The Kerosun's have a large circular wick like a lantern.
Best -------- Bill G.
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Re: cyclone engine December 12, 2006 12:01PM |
Admin Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 2,086 |
Wow....thinking about the smell of JP-5 reminds me of back in the day when I skylarked on Vulture's Row watching the Tomcats, Corsairs and Intruders catapult off the deck. Must be some sort of sickness associated with getting older, can't believe I'm actually NOSTALGIC for that eye watering stench!
Ken
Ken
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Re: cyclone engine December 12, 2006 01:52PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,441 |
Bill,
He said they recycle it at some refinery. Where and how I don't know.
I am thinking that it has a lot to do with how they are burned. I run the Dobles on a rather lean mixture, just because cleaning the soot off the coils is a really messy job. Run sort of rich and you sure get eye watering fumes. Run too lean and you get foot stinging backfires, they really don't like that. Very fussy. Once blew the flue pan right off the car. Sure cleans the soot out though.
Also that JP fuel does not seem to be as heavy or oily as plain old industrial kerosene. Industrial lasts for ages; but not JP, one whif of the tank and you almost pass out. That really smells awful.
I have one of those heaters and you NEVER use diesel in them, only clean kerosene.
JC
He said they recycle it at some refinery. Where and how I don't know.
I am thinking that it has a lot to do with how they are burned. I run the Dobles on a rather lean mixture, just because cleaning the soot off the coils is a really messy job. Run sort of rich and you sure get eye watering fumes. Run too lean and you get foot stinging backfires, they really don't like that. Very fussy. Once blew the flue pan right off the car. Sure cleans the soot out though.
Also that JP fuel does not seem to be as heavy or oily as plain old industrial kerosene. Industrial lasts for ages; but not JP, one whif of the tank and you almost pass out. That really smells awful.
I have one of those heaters and you NEVER use diesel in them, only clean kerosene.
JC
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