cyclone engine
Posted by Harry Schoell
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Re: cyclone engine February 25, 2006 03:44PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 25, 2006 06:38PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 318 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 28, 2006 05:26PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 28, 2006 05:50PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine March 01, 2006 09:33AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,038 |
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Re: cyclone engine March 01, 2006 11:28AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Andy,
We are still testing. Seen things go up and down depending on fuel BTU. Thought it interesting at the low diesel numbers. A 1000hp marine cat engine will burn .05x hp per hr It will go slightly lower when loaded but not in the operatin range. The VW auto diesel is at .55X hp similar to other engines of that size. The 10kw generators are at .074Xhp per gal per hr. A good gas car enine will use .08 gal per hp per hr.
Normaly diesel eff is 30 to 38%
gas Eff is 20 to 25%
Harry
We are still testing. Seen things go up and down depending on fuel BTU. Thought it interesting at the low diesel numbers. A 1000hp marine cat engine will burn .05x hp per hr It will go slightly lower when loaded but not in the operatin range. The VW auto diesel is at .55X hp similar to other engines of that size. The 10kw generators are at .074Xhp per gal per hr. A good gas car enine will use .08 gal per hp per hr.
Normaly diesel eff is 30 to 38%
gas Eff is 20 to 25%
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine March 30, 2006 09:20AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Friends,
We are taking the Cyclone engines to the SAE show in Detroit April 3-6. We are leaving this afternoon, If anyone wishes to attend please email or call me asap and I can have a badge for you at will call.
hiperform1@aol.com 954 943 8721
Harry
We are taking the Cyclone engines to the SAE show in Detroit April 3-6. We are leaving this afternoon, If anyone wishes to attend please email or call me asap and I can have a badge for you at will call.
hiperform1@aol.com 954 943 8721
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine March 30, 2006 09:33AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,441 |
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Re: cyclone engine April 11, 2006 09:59AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Thanks Friends
We are back and had a great show
Our patent has been aproved and with no refferances.
We recieved an SAE tech award
artical in the Detroit News
artical in Go Boating mag
artical in Automotive Design mag
alot of intrest in the technology
also on www.greencarcongress.com
have tired jaws will give more updates later, there may be a steam car in your future. Have a lot of work to do.
Harry
We are back and had a great show
Our patent has been aproved and with no refferances.
We recieved an SAE tech award
artical in the Detroit News
artical in Go Boating mag
artical in Automotive Design mag
alot of intrest in the technology
also on www.greencarcongress.com
have tired jaws will give more updates later, there may be a steam car in your future. Have a lot of work to do.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine April 11, 2006 11:06PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 340 |
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Re: cyclone engine April 25, 2006 08:28AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Friends
an update
Views of how the heat flow works in the cyclone
an update
Views of how the heat flow works in the cyclone
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Re: cyclone engine April 25, 2006 09:43AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
Hello Harry,
I like that bi-directional flow from the exhaust ports through the cylinder heat exchange coils. How many feet^2 of tubing wrap around each cylinder?
I can see how the engine's efficiency is critically dependent upon the efficiency of the various heat exchangers. What is the exhaust temperature?
Best ---------- Bill G.
I like that bi-directional flow from the exhaust ports through the cylinder heat exchange coils. How many feet^2 of tubing wrap around each cylinder?
I can see how the engine's efficiency is critically dependent upon the efficiency of the various heat exchangers. What is the exhaust temperature?
Best ---------- Bill G.
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Re: cyclone engine April 25, 2006 11:30AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Bill
There is over 1sq ft. surface area around each cyl and is the first in the 4or 5 heat exchanges depending how you look at it. Exaust temp is less than 350f according to calc. and by test.
The total heat recoverey calc is 39%. The engine is high compression uniflow with varible clearance, compression, timing, duration. cintrifical fuel burn, ect. It takes a while to explane every thing that is going on in this thing.
Now that we have the main patent and others pending I will be glad to answer as many questions as possible.
Harry
There is over 1sq ft. surface area around each cyl and is the first in the 4or 5 heat exchanges depending how you look at it. Exaust temp is less than 350f according to calc. and by test.
The total heat recoverey calc is 39%. The engine is high compression uniflow with varible clearance, compression, timing, duration. cintrifical fuel burn, ect. It takes a while to explane every thing that is going on in this thing.
Now that we have the main patent and others pending I will be glad to answer as many questions as possible.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine April 25, 2006 01:19PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
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Re: cyclone engine April 25, 2006 02:03PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine April 25, 2006 11:40PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,453 |
Most ingenious, Harry! Study of the heat diagrams and cutaway drawing answered most of my remaining questions except the variable valve timing. Is that a sliding cam sleeve on the crankshaft in the top of the condenser? A sliding roller cam running in exhaust steam? I see the clearance control elements but their control regime and actuation are "considerably mysterious". Condensate path to pan is a "?", but I can see several ways it could be done. Great dwgs & graphics, btw!
Peter
Peter
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Re: cyclone engine April 26, 2006 10:16AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the compliment, as you know it is not easy.
There are a few thing omited for clearity. Yes it is a sliding cam it can move up and down and rotate with the lever to effect reverse which changes timing only. The cam is in normal low speed foward where rpm lifts the cam via water preasure where timing and duration changes. this is auto matic or can be computer controled. I prefer the less complicated auto matic, However it is the world of electronic door knobs. The exaust blows down after the primary heat exchange coil. The roller rockers change cutoff for throtteling. The clearence volume is also controled by engine RPM. It starts at 4/1 to 27/1. The 4/1 is sent to the combustion zone for reheat, it is not wasted to the condencer.
There are about 126 cad drawings not including hand drawings and a large book of calculations, PV diagrams, water rate, pumps, blowers, fuel, ect. There is not a lot of off the shelf items. There are four of these engines 1 for display 1 for futher bench testing and the other 2 for vehicels. An Excursion and a sports car similar to the one I posted earlier. We are now also doing 6 of the 2cyl genset engine.
Harry
Thanks for the compliment, as you know it is not easy.
There are a few thing omited for clearity. Yes it is a sliding cam it can move up and down and rotate with the lever to effect reverse which changes timing only. The cam is in normal low speed foward where rpm lifts the cam via water preasure where timing and duration changes. this is auto matic or can be computer controled. I prefer the less complicated auto matic, However it is the world of electronic door knobs. The exaust blows down after the primary heat exchange coil. The roller rockers change cutoff for throtteling. The clearence volume is also controled by engine RPM. It starts at 4/1 to 27/1. The 4/1 is sent to the combustion zone for reheat, it is not wasted to the condencer.
There are about 126 cad drawings not including hand drawings and a large book of calculations, PV diagrams, water rate, pumps, blowers, fuel, ect. There is not a lot of off the shelf items. There are four of these engines 1 for display 1 for futher bench testing and the other 2 for vehicels. An Excursion and a sports car similar to the one I posted earlier. We are now also doing 6 of the 2cyl genset engine.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine April 26, 2006 11:33AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,038 |
Hi Harry.
From what I can tell from your drawing and comments here I think we are not thinking about clearance in the same way. I think what you have is a volume where excess compression pressure can go. Like the Williams engine. It can then be re admitted. Where clearance as I use the term is the volume of the expansion chamber when the piston is at TDC admission and exhaust valves closed.
Anyway great work. When are you going to have some performance info available.
Andy
From what I can tell from your drawing and comments here I think we are not thinking about clearance in the same way. I think what you have is a volume where excess compression pressure can go. Like the Williams engine. It can then be re admitted. Where clearance as I use the term is the volume of the expansion chamber when the piston is at TDC admission and exhaust valves closed.
Anyway great work. When are you going to have some performance info available.
Andy
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Re: cyclone engine April 26, 2006 01:24PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Andy,
thanks,We are a little behind on the 6cyl because we are commited to a production 2cyl 10KW gen set engine in a year. I think we can make up some time next mounth. We have only been on this for a year and a half. testing individule parts has been a challenge. It is not just an engine but a total system that has to work together. We also donot want to publish premature data, however I donnot see it taking over a year at the most.
I belive your term for clearance volume will apply here as it is not like the Williams engine although it is variable.
Harry
thanks,We are a little behind on the 6cyl because we are commited to a production 2cyl 10KW gen set engine in a year. I think we can make up some time next mounth. We have only been on this for a year and a half. testing individule parts has been a challenge. It is not just an engine but a total system that has to work together. We also donot want to publish premature data, however I donnot see it taking over a year at the most.
I belive your term for clearance volume will apply here as it is not like the Williams engine although it is variable.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine April 26, 2006 01:40PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
Hello Harry,
I had to figure out how to flop and reverse the colors in the image, as it came out white on black in my software. I must have downloaded it backwards. LOL I may find a good color image of a Stanley and superimpose your drawing over it for some interesting screen wallpaper.
The high pressures seem to make for a very small, comparatively, valve head size and consequently lighter poppet valve than engines of mid pressure range can use. Yours appear almost like needle valves with the heads about the same size as the stems. I noticed two different valve head designs on the left and right side of the engine. One blunt which inserted into the seat and one tapered which sat on the seat more conventionally. Which are you ending up with?
My valve train design is looking to be very fast for a large valve so I am wondering how many degrees your valve takes to go from full close to full open?
Your engine looks really good, with lots of possibilities for further developmental improvements, as in no dead ends. At this point I believe it will head toward commercial success, and wish you and your team the very best with it. It will be fun to ride in the car when you get it built. Berrian Springs?
Have a good week ------------ Bill G.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2006 01:43PM by Bill Gatlin.
I had to figure out how to flop and reverse the colors in the image, as it came out white on black in my software. I must have downloaded it backwards. LOL I may find a good color image of a Stanley and superimpose your drawing over it for some interesting screen wallpaper.
The high pressures seem to make for a very small, comparatively, valve head size and consequently lighter poppet valve than engines of mid pressure range can use. Yours appear almost like needle valves with the heads about the same size as the stems. I noticed two different valve head designs on the left and right side of the engine. One blunt which inserted into the seat and one tapered which sat on the seat more conventionally. Which are you ending up with?
My valve train design is looking to be very fast for a large valve so I am wondering how many degrees your valve takes to go from full close to full open?
Your engine looks really good, with lots of possibilities for further developmental improvements, as in no dead ends. At this point I believe it will head toward commercial success, and wish you and your team the very best with it. It will be fun to ride in the car when you get it built. Berrian Springs?
Have a good week ------------ Bill G.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2006 01:43PM by Bill Gatlin.
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Re: cyclone engine April 26, 2006 05:02PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Thanks again Bill,
IN that drawing the valve is the same maybe it is a smudge. We are testing different valve material as the valve is almost preasure ballanced. this has to be done because of the high preasure. The high density and high preasure allows a small valve. the small 2"x2" allows a high rpm and allows for a longer power band.The valve could be called a needle valve as it is just a rod as you see.
Pushrods are titaniem tube and aluminum rocker arms. ratio expanding rocker arm is to minamize cam lift. It also has a spring on the valve and a spring on the cam follower rocker to keep down valve float.
Harry
IN that drawing the valve is the same maybe it is a smudge. We are testing different valve material as the valve is almost preasure ballanced. this has to be done because of the high preasure. The high density and high preasure allows a small valve. the small 2"x2" allows a high rpm and allows for a longer power band.The valve could be called a needle valve as it is just a rod as you see.
Pushrods are titaniem tube and aluminum rocker arms. ratio expanding rocker arm is to minamize cam lift. It also has a spring on the valve and a spring on the cam follower rocker to keep down valve float.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine April 26, 2006 05:09PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,038 |
Hi Harry.
Hard to tell from the drawing exactly how your variable clearance works.
Could you explaine a little about it's functioning.
I am not sure I have idenentified the clearance mechanism. I am looking at the tube projection that goes into the fire chamber out of the valve mechanism. It looks like a nu-matic type valve that opens a valve under that tube.
Is that it?
Andy
Hard to tell from the drawing exactly how your variable clearance works.
Could you explaine a little about it's functioning.
I am not sure I have idenentified the clearance mechanism. I am looking at the tube projection that goes into the fire chamber out of the valve mechanism. It looks like a nu-matic type valve that opens a valve under that tube.
Is that it?
Andy
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Re: cyclone engine April 26, 2006 05:52PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,453 |
Hi Harry,
The Cyclone exhaust steam path I can see, from ports to hollow fins; the mystery to me is condensate outlet from the OD of the hollow fins to the water pan on the bottom. Interesting exhaust path, basically a large-diameter hollow rotating finned drum. Talk about wide open exhaust. Flow resistance I'd estimate at approximately zero.
How do you seal the rims of the condenser drum? I'm visualizing something like the seals on a clothes dryer drum.
Peter
The Cyclone exhaust steam path I can see, from ports to hollow fins; the mystery to me is condensate outlet from the OD of the hollow fins to the water pan on the bottom. Interesting exhaust path, basically a large-diameter hollow rotating finned drum. Talk about wide open exhaust. Flow resistance I'd estimate at approximately zero.
How do you seal the rims of the condenser drum? I'm visualizing something like the seals on a clothes dryer drum.
Peter
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Re: cyclone engine April 27, 2006 10:15AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Good morning Andy, peter,
The clearance valve is opened to allow copression to enter a tube in the combustion zone where it picks up heat and returns to the cylinder. this is rpm dependent and works at the lower rpm range as the valve closes from water preasure which can be regulated to control where this will occour.
The exaust from the ports first goes through the tube nest heat exchanger that enters the bach of the generator the saturated vapour then is slung by centrifical force of the spining shaft into the condencer slots. It looks like a bellows however it has drain tubes around the pereferal areas to drain to the pan. this does not rotate.
Harry
The clearance valve is opened to allow copression to enter a tube in the combustion zone where it picks up heat and returns to the cylinder. this is rpm dependent and works at the lower rpm range as the valve closes from water preasure which can be regulated to control where this will occour.
The exaust from the ports first goes through the tube nest heat exchanger that enters the bach of the generator the saturated vapour then is slung by centrifical force of the spining shaft into the condencer slots. It looks like a bellows however it has drain tubes around the pereferal areas to drain to the pan. this does not rotate.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine April 27, 2006 11:08AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,038 |
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Re: cyclone engine April 27, 2006 11:51AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine April 27, 2006 12:50PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,038 |
Hi Harry
Jerry's design, if I remember right, had 2 or 3 aux clearanc chambers and a gating valve to use some number of them.
Maybe you are thinking of the Williams engine. Not sure which Williams engine he had. One of them had a movable piston head mechanism that varied displacement. I was thinking about Jerry's SPAT design. Maybe SPAT is the wrong name. But something like that though.
Andy
Jerry's design, if I remember right, had 2 or 3 aux clearanc chambers and a gating valve to use some number of them.
Maybe you are thinking of the Williams engine. Not sure which Williams engine he had. One of them had a movable piston head mechanism that varied displacement. I was thinking about Jerry's SPAT design. Maybe SPAT is the wrong name. But something like that though.
Andy
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Re: cyclone engine April 27, 2006 01:22PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
Hello Harry,
If the recompressed steam is recompressed to a temperature slightly higher than inlet then when it is heated in the combustion zone it must be comming back to the cylinder quite hot. The total mix before expansion would then be a bit higher than inlet. Is this so?
You mentioned that the exhaust temperature was 350 degrees F. Was that after release or end of expansion? It would be nice to see the engines cycles drawn out on a T_S chart.
Best Regards ------------ Bill G.
If the recompressed steam is recompressed to a temperature slightly higher than inlet then when it is heated in the combustion zone it must be comming back to the cylinder quite hot. The total mix before expansion would then be a bit higher than inlet. Is this so?
You mentioned that the exhaust temperature was 350 degrees F. Was that after release or end of expansion? It would be nice to see the engines cycles drawn out on a T_S chart.
Best Regards ------------ Bill G.
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Re: cyclone engine April 27, 2006 03:16PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Bill, Andy,
It is not at all like the Williams or the peoples, neither had heat recovery to the combustion chamber.
Yes as we say it comes back with a vengence. On earlier tests the inlet was to close to the edge of the piston and blew the rings out like a aceteline torch had burned it. moveing it closer to the center of the piston cured this problem.
the combuston exaust as well as port are at 350f however the port exaust is mostly recovered as this vapor becomes saturated as it goes through the port exchanger then to the condencer.
Harry
It is not at all like the Williams or the peoples, neither had heat recovery to the combustion chamber.
Yes as we say it comes back with a vengence. On earlier tests the inlet was to close to the edge of the piston and blew the rings out like a aceteline torch had burned it. moveing it closer to the center of the piston cured this problem.
the combuston exaust as well as port are at 350f however the port exaust is mostly recovered as this vapor becomes saturated as it goes through the port exchanger then to the condencer.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine May 04, 2006 08:38PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 3 |
Hi Harry, a quick question, do you have plans to make a horizontal shaft version of the Cyclone engine?
Lonny Claypool
5710 Melody Lane
Nashport, Ohio 43830
email: lclaypool@columbus.rr.com
Lonny Claypool
5710 Melody Lane
Nashport, Ohio 43830
email: lclaypool@columbus.rr.com
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