cyclone engine
Posted by Harry Schoell
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Re: cyclone engine August 25, 2005 02:45PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine August 27, 2005 12:38PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 282 |
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Re: cyclone engine August 29, 2005 09:03AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi
Faired the storm well, went to the west coast and rode in Chuk Williams car,great fun.
We are testing fuel made from oranges. burnes like kerosen, sugestion was made to change the color from red to orange. Will be at the meet. The time trials are really necessary to keep this club alive and bring in some young members, it needs the excitement. Chuk needs to be comended as he built a special steam dragster for this event the only one. we could have more as it is a lot of fun but few know of it.
thanks Harry
Faired the storm well, went to the west coast and rode in Chuk Williams car,great fun.
We are testing fuel made from oranges. burnes like kerosen, sugestion was made to change the color from red to orange. Will be at the meet. The time trials are really necessary to keep this club alive and bring in some young members, it needs the excitement. Chuk needs to be comended as he built a special steam dragster for this event the only one. we could have more as it is a lot of fun but few know of it.
thanks Harry
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Re: cyclone engine September 05, 2005 12:17PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
uP DATE ON THE CYCLONE
testing different types of fuels. One of which is interesting. It is made from oranges. It burnes similar to kerosene but with no odor except a slight orange aroma quite plesent. when using kerosene the smell is far worse opening the can than burning. The price is close to gasoline. As with all of the fuels it is the BTU cost that is important. Most of these fuels can be blended to streach the supply. of course we can burn most any combination as in the cyclone combustion chamber the fuel is spun in a multi-pass burn. again BTU is what counts in any external combustion engine. some fuel blends will burn OK if used right away, as some will dissasociate, others such as a combination of gas and acetone if let to long will form gun cotton and plug thingsup.
Harry
testing different types of fuels. One of which is interesting. It is made from oranges. It burnes similar to kerosene but with no odor except a slight orange aroma quite plesent. when using kerosene the smell is far worse opening the can than burning. The price is close to gasoline. As with all of the fuels it is the BTU cost that is important. Most of these fuels can be blended to streach the supply. of course we can burn most any combination as in the cyclone combustion chamber the fuel is spun in a multi-pass burn. again BTU is what counts in any external combustion engine. some fuel blends will burn OK if used right away, as some will dissasociate, others such as a combination of gas and acetone if let to long will form gun cotton and plug thingsup.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine PICTURES October 10, 2005 05:35PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 3 |
THOUGHT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO SEE THE 6 CYLINDER ON THE DIFFERENTIAL
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Re: cyclone engine PICTURES October 11, 2005 12:16PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 215 |
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Re: cyclone engine November 15, 2005 04:34PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Folks,
could not post untill now, all is well
Have new cyclone updates.
We ran a 2cyl eng at the SACA it can be seen runing at the cyclone web site
www.cyclonepower.com
This mounth we displaded a 2cyl with a 10KW generator and a 6cyl mounted on a differental at SAE in Chicago.
Harry
could not post untill now, all is well
Have new cyclone updates.
We ran a 2cyl eng at the SACA it can be seen runing at the cyclone web site
www.cyclonepower.com
This mounth we displaded a 2cyl with a 10KW generator and a 6cyl mounted on a differental at SAE in Chicago.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine November 15, 2005 06:27PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
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Re: cyclone engine November 16, 2005 08:59AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 18 |
try [www.emachineshop.com]
this is a quote from the website:
"""eMachineShop is the remarkable new way to get the custom parts you need - the first true online machine shop. Download our free software, draw your part, and click to order - it's easy! Your part will be machined and delivered - at low cost."""
I have nothing to gain from publishing this but think it is a great way for someone to design and build parts.....
this is a quote from the website:
"""eMachineShop is the remarkable new way to get the custom parts you need - the first true online machine shop. Download our free software, draw your part, and click to order - it's easy! Your part will be machined and delivered - at low cost."""
I have nothing to gain from publishing this but think it is a great way for someone to design and build parts.....
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Re: cyclone engine November 16, 2005 09:39AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Bill,
Good to here from you.
The engine was a hit at the show from our propective. Major companys are looking and asking a lot of questions. We appear to have what they need. Of course we have to balance our marketing with developement. We feel we have made major breakthroughs in this past year. We would be glad to share some of them when we can. There was almost always a small crowd at the booth, the photo was a rare moment.
Zukerman
We had considered to use that service, and might still, it looks like a good idea. However we are near the end of the major work,on the down side of the work load. There are over 100 sheets of drawings on the 6 cyl alone and at time over loaded our machine shop. Thanks.
Harry
Good to here from you.
The engine was a hit at the show from our propective. Major companys are looking and asking a lot of questions. We appear to have what they need. Of course we have to balance our marketing with developement. We feel we have made major breakthroughs in this past year. We would be glad to share some of them when we can. There was almost always a small crowd at the booth, the photo was a rare moment.
Zukerman
We had considered to use that service, and might still, it looks like a good idea. However we are near the end of the major work,on the down side of the work load. There are over 100 sheets of drawings on the 6 cyl alone and at time over loaded our machine shop. Thanks.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine November 28, 2005 02:53PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine November 28, 2005 03:04PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Information on the previous post.
This boat will be built next year for the steam boat record. There is no official APBA record been established as yet. Frankie is designated driver she is a great grand mother ( GGMOM) Of course the situation will change when Howard gets his boat running. Then he can brag that a blind guy took the record from granny.
The boat is wood and is 14'x4' all up weight is 500lbs. The 2cyl cyclone of 18hp and a PulseDrive surface drive will give it a top speed of 42mph.
having fun
Harry
This boat will be built next year for the steam boat record. There is no official APBA record been established as yet. Frankie is designated driver she is a great grand mother ( GGMOM) Of course the situation will change when Howard gets his boat running. Then he can brag that a blind guy took the record from granny.
The boat is wood and is 14'x4' all up weight is 500lbs. The 2cyl cyclone of 18hp and a PulseDrive surface drive will give it a top speed of 42mph.
having fun
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine November 29, 2005 12:37PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
Hello Harry,
What a neat project! Both a cute boat and driver.
It should also be some good press for steam intrests as well as your engine in particular. I had a friend who held the world dragster record for some time, I think it was about three minutes, the next dragster took it from him. Still he's got "bragging rights".
Tell Frankie I said Hi --------- Bill G.
What a neat project! Both a cute boat and driver.
It should also be some good press for steam intrests as well as your engine in particular. I had a friend who held the world dragster record for some time, I think it was about three minutes, the next dragster took it from him. Still he's got "bragging rights".
Tell Frankie I said Hi --------- Bill G.
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Re: cyclone engine December 08, 2005 10:05AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 318 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 08, 2005 12:46PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Howard,
Never heard of that boat or engine. Was it a two way sanctioned run? Will need more HP. dont think that engine will survive might have to put two in tandem for36hp and a bigger boat about 16' and a gross wt of 650lbs for 51mph.
nouthen is ever easy. How close are you coming with your boat? Would still like to know the true efficency of the complete engine with boiler and all accesarys not just the Williams engine. Fuel rate at lbs/hp/hr.
Harry
Never heard of that boat or engine. Was it a two way sanctioned run? Will need more HP. dont think that engine will survive might have to put two in tandem for36hp and a bigger boat about 16' and a gross wt of 650lbs for 51mph.
nouthen is ever easy. How close are you coming with your boat? Would still like to know the true efficency of the complete engine with boiler and all accesarys not just the Williams engine. Fuel rate at lbs/hp/hr.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine December 11, 2005 06:48PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 318 |
Hi Harry, I have a photostatic copy of a 1911 Popular Science or Popular Mechanics. All it says that the Hydro was powered by a 40hp White and 2 White Boilers. The boat went 46 mph. Whether it was clocked one way or two ways it doesn't say. That is all the info I have on it.
The Williams was to be assembled on the forth of this month but I discovered that the rings I had were gap-less rings. I broke one of them on the assembly and was afraid that if I broke one and didn't catch it, I would tear up the cylinder. So I have ordered ordinary rings which I should have this Monday or Tuesday. I will let you know when it is running on air. Then I have to restore the Green Monster's boiler for a steam test. The boiler was not damaged too badly in the fire. The pressure vessel is fine.
Howard
> HI Harry I have a karpy of a 1911 popular cines or mechanic. Mathe ring I had worm not right .so am waiting for new one
>
>
>
The Williams was to be assembled on the forth of this month but I discovered that the rings I had were gap-less rings. I broke one of them on the assembly and was afraid that if I broke one and didn't catch it, I would tear up the cylinder. So I have ordered ordinary rings which I should have this Monday or Tuesday. I will let you know when it is running on air. Then I have to restore the Green Monster's boiler for a steam test. The boiler was not damaged too badly in the fire. The pressure vessel is fine.
Howard
> HI Harry I have a karpy of a 1911 popular cines or mechanic. Mathe ring I had worm not right .so am waiting for new one
>
>
>
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Re: cyclone engine December 12, 2005 12:42PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine December 15, 2005 08:41PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 318 |
Hi Harry,
I am sorry but I can't find the 1911 article I was talking about. I haven't seen it since I had a visit from a steamboat manufacture in Oregon. The boat looked like a 1940 Criscraft with a steering wheel amidships and two short stacks sticking up in the rear with a single step on the boat.
That's all the info I can give you. I have been talking about a high speed steam boat but as the years passed the speed went up. I just couldn't see how I could do it with Doble tech without sinking the boat. But when Williams came along it all of a sudden became doable.
Howard
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Re: cyclone engine January 20, 2006 04:34PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Cyclone uodate
This is the internal pump that is installed in the bottom of the condenser/ pan.
Also a view of the pump doing tests at 2000 psi. the preasure relief valve is built in. The pump is double acting one side high preassure, the other is the lubrication piston. The crank shaft is vertical. This has elemiated a lot of plumbing and leeks.
Harry
This is the internal pump that is installed in the bottom of the condenser/ pan.
Also a view of the pump doing tests at 2000 psi. the preasure relief valve is built in. The pump is double acting one side high preassure, the other is the lubrication piston. The crank shaft is vertical. This has elemiated a lot of plumbing and leeks.
Harry
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Steam Patent Search January 24, 2006 12:57PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 3 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 08, 2006 03:32PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Andy,
This is the generator coil from the 2cyl engine. it is operated at a constant temperature as variations will cause stress cracks. stainless seems to have a cycle life as does a battery If kept at a constant temp this is minimized.
It also had no carbon build up the coils are clean enough for white glove assembly. Of course none inside either, no oil in the engine.
Harry
This is the generator coil from the 2cyl engine. it is operated at a constant temperature as variations will cause stress cracks. stainless seems to have a cycle life as does a battery If kept at a constant temp this is minimized.
It also had no carbon build up the coils are clean enough for white glove assembly. Of course none inside either, no oil in the engine.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine February 08, 2006 09:04PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 09, 2006 01:02PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Bill,
Yes they are swagelok fittings, and the have been revmoved several times without leaking. They operate in the flame front.
310 or 316 are the best however we are able to use 304 which cost far less because we are using deionized water. There are also other exotics such as inconel or hexaloy. We are using an inconel spring in the bump valve in the 2cyl engine.
Harry
Yes they are swagelok fittings, and the have been revmoved several times without leaking. They operate in the flame front.
310 or 316 are the best however we are able to use 304 which cost far less because we are using deionized water. There are also other exotics such as inconel or hexaloy. We are using an inconel spring in the bump valve in the 2cyl engine.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine February 09, 2006 02:12PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,771 |
I hope this chart comes out OK
Common Boiler Tube Specifications
ASME Spec. ASME Grade ERW or Smls. Description Typical uses
SA-178 A ERW Low carbon steel - C=0.18 max. Boiler tubes, economizers, low temp. superheaters
SA-178 C ERW Medium carbon steel - C=0.35 max. Boiler tubes, economizers, low temp. superheaters
SA-178 D ERW Carbon-manganese steel - C=0.27 max Not in common use
SA-192 Smls. Low carbon steel - C=0.18 max Waterwalls, economizers, low temp. superheaters
SA-210 A1 Smls. Medium carbon steel - C=0.27 max. Waterwalls, economizers, superheaters
SA-210 C Smls. Medium carbon steel - C=0.35 max. Waterwalls, economizers, superheaters
SA-209 T1 Smls. Low alloy steel - low carbon, 1/2% moly Superheaters
SA-209 T1a Smls. Low alloy steel - medium carbon, 1/2% moly Superheaters
SA-209 T1b Smls. Low alloy steel - low carbon, 1/2% moly Superheaters
SA-213 T2 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 1/2% chrome, 1/2% moly Waterwalls, superheaters, not in common use
SA-213 T11 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 1 1/4% chrome, 1/2% moly Waterwalls, superheaters
SA-213 T22 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 2 1/4% chrome, 1% moly Waterwalls, superheaters
SA-213 T5 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 5% chrome, 1/2% moly High temperature superheaters, not in common use
SA-213 T9 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 9% chrome, 1% moly High temperature superheaters, no longer in common use
SA-213 T91 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 9% chrome, 1% moly, 1/4% vanadium High temperature superheaters - the latest and greatest
SA-213 Tp-304 Smls. Stainless steel - 18% chrome, 8% nickel Superheaters
SA-213 Tp-304H Smls. Stainless steel for high temperature service High temperature superheaters
SA-213 Tp-316 Smls. Stainless steel - 16% chrome, 11% nickel Superheaters
SA-213 Tp-316H Smls. Stainless steel for high temperature service High temperature superheaters
SA-213 Tp-321 Smls. Stainless steel - 17% chrome, 9% nickel, 0.60% titanium Superheaters
SA-213 Tp-321H Smls. Stainless steel for high temperature service High temperature superheaters
SA-213 Tp-347 Smls. Stainless steel - 17% chrome, 9% nickel, columbium + tantalum=1.00% max. Superheaters
SA-213 Tp-347H Smls. Stainless steel for high temperature service High temperature superheaters
For boiler tubes, A-178A is the most common, and most economical choice.
Economizers are usually made from SA-178A or SA-210-A1.
Superheater materials vary widely, with SA-178A and SA-192 used most often in the lower temperature ranges. SA-210-A1, SA-213-T11, and SA-213-T22 are commonly seen in the intermediate temperature ranges, with the stainless grades, most frequently Tp-304H and Tp-347H, reserved for the higher temperature superheaters, although SA-213-T91 is increasingly specified for the highest temperatures.
Rolly
Common Boiler Tube Specifications
ASME Spec. ASME Grade ERW or Smls. Description Typical uses
SA-178 A ERW Low carbon steel - C=0.18 max. Boiler tubes, economizers, low temp. superheaters
SA-178 C ERW Medium carbon steel - C=0.35 max. Boiler tubes, economizers, low temp. superheaters
SA-178 D ERW Carbon-manganese steel - C=0.27 max Not in common use
SA-192 Smls. Low carbon steel - C=0.18 max Waterwalls, economizers, low temp. superheaters
SA-210 A1 Smls. Medium carbon steel - C=0.27 max. Waterwalls, economizers, superheaters
SA-210 C Smls. Medium carbon steel - C=0.35 max. Waterwalls, economizers, superheaters
SA-209 T1 Smls. Low alloy steel - low carbon, 1/2% moly Superheaters
SA-209 T1a Smls. Low alloy steel - medium carbon, 1/2% moly Superheaters
SA-209 T1b Smls. Low alloy steel - low carbon, 1/2% moly Superheaters
SA-213 T2 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 1/2% chrome, 1/2% moly Waterwalls, superheaters, not in common use
SA-213 T11 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 1 1/4% chrome, 1/2% moly Waterwalls, superheaters
SA-213 T22 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 2 1/4% chrome, 1% moly Waterwalls, superheaters
SA-213 T5 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 5% chrome, 1/2% moly High temperature superheaters, not in common use
SA-213 T9 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 9% chrome, 1% moly High temperature superheaters, no longer in common use
SA-213 T91 Smls. Intermediate alloy - 9% chrome, 1% moly, 1/4% vanadium High temperature superheaters - the latest and greatest
SA-213 Tp-304 Smls. Stainless steel - 18% chrome, 8% nickel Superheaters
SA-213 Tp-304H Smls. Stainless steel for high temperature service High temperature superheaters
SA-213 Tp-316 Smls. Stainless steel - 16% chrome, 11% nickel Superheaters
SA-213 Tp-316H Smls. Stainless steel for high temperature service High temperature superheaters
SA-213 Tp-321 Smls. Stainless steel - 17% chrome, 9% nickel, 0.60% titanium Superheaters
SA-213 Tp-321H Smls. Stainless steel for high temperature service High temperature superheaters
SA-213 Tp-347 Smls. Stainless steel - 17% chrome, 9% nickel, columbium + tantalum=1.00% max. Superheaters
SA-213 Tp-347H Smls. Stainless steel for high temperature service High temperature superheaters
For boiler tubes, A-178A is the most common, and most economical choice.
Economizers are usually made from SA-178A or SA-210-A1.
Superheater materials vary widely, with SA-178A and SA-192 used most often in the lower temperature ranges. SA-210-A1, SA-213-T11, and SA-213-T22 are commonly seen in the intermediate temperature ranges, with the stainless grades, most frequently Tp-304H and Tp-347H, reserved for the higher temperature superheaters, although SA-213-T91 is increasingly specified for the highest temperatures.
Rolly
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Re: cyclone engine February 09, 2006 10:59PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
Wow, thanks Rolly,
So if I am understanding this right, the Swagelok can screw right into the head and to the steamchest. Any "pipe dope"?
I also am thinking that with 1200 degree steam that a stainless steel head and steamchest might be required. The 1st stage head is two pieces and screws into the end of the cylinder. Any ideas as to the best type of steel for the heads?
Thank You ------------- Bill G.
So if I am understanding this right, the Swagelok can screw right into the head and to the steamchest. Any "pipe dope"?
I also am thinking that with 1200 degree steam that a stainless steel head and steamchest might be required. The 1st stage head is two pieces and screws into the end of the cylinder. Any ideas as to the best type of steel for the heads?
Thank You ------------- Bill G.
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Re: cyclone engine February 09, 2006 09:23PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Bill,
Forget the pipe dope, major leak. The swagelok works only on tubes dont even think about pipe fittings in a steam line. We tested all types of baked high temp dopes, some as much as $45.00 for a small tube. weld or use a tapered seat or in some cases a flat face seat is good. most of these fittings we had to make our selves. We have used 316 ss and 304 ss and found little difference, and there is a box full of test heads here. Again it might depend on the water. You won't be able to use a water treatment at that temperture and whatever is in it will become very agressive. This is just the tip of the ice burg, You have to rely as much on past work as you can, however to make a truly modern engine you will have to make some leaps which take a lot of time and testing. The theory of building a project is the easy part, stoping a leak is tough. You connot skip over the other parts of the design just to have an engine run as the generator and the condencer. The way we approach a desigh is to do the total concept,then disect it into its parts. Starting from parts then connecting them together ends in an a lot of do over.
happy steaming Harry
Forget the pipe dope, major leak. The swagelok works only on tubes dont even think about pipe fittings in a steam line. We tested all types of baked high temp dopes, some as much as $45.00 for a small tube. weld or use a tapered seat or in some cases a flat face seat is good. most of these fittings we had to make our selves. We have used 316 ss and 304 ss and found little difference, and there is a box full of test heads here. Again it might depend on the water. You won't be able to use a water treatment at that temperture and whatever is in it will become very agressive. This is just the tip of the ice burg, You have to rely as much on past work as you can, however to make a truly modern engine you will have to make some leaps which take a lot of time and testing. The theory of building a project is the easy part, stoping a leak is tough. You connot skip over the other parts of the design just to have an engine run as the generator and the condencer. The way we approach a desigh is to do the total concept,then disect it into its parts. Starting from parts then connecting them together ends in an a lot of do over.
happy steaming Harry
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Re: cyclone engine February 09, 2006 10:48PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
Hello Harry,
That sounds similar to the way I've been designing the thing, Total concept first then the disecting, and finer designing. That of course effects the final design as various systems and the parts that make them up show their vulnerabilities. Lots of those leaps, but I think that is what it's going to take to get a modern engine designed.
It does take a lot more time than one would think viewing it from the outside or with little experience. Hope to pick up some help along the way once the paper version is as far as it can go and if it still looks good.
So far so good, my main problem is comming home tired and feeling up to it at the drafting table, getting older sucks. I'm used to long hours way into the early morn, that's when I'm the most creative. That's getting harder to do and still function at all the next day.
If I just keep plowing I'll get there though.
With a flat flange to the head, what type of gasket material seems best? I would think too high a temp for copper.
Best of days ---------- Bill G.
That sounds similar to the way I've been designing the thing, Total concept first then the disecting, and finer designing. That of course effects the final design as various systems and the parts that make them up show their vulnerabilities. Lots of those leaps, but I think that is what it's going to take to get a modern engine designed.
It does take a lot more time than one would think viewing it from the outside or with little experience. Hope to pick up some help along the way once the paper version is as far as it can go and if it still looks good.
So far so good, my main problem is comming home tired and feeling up to it at the drafting table, getting older sucks. I'm used to long hours way into the early morn, that's when I'm the most creative. That's getting harder to do and still function at all the next day.
If I just keep plowing I'll get there though.
With a flat flange to the head, what type of gasket material seems best? I would think too high a temp for copper.
Best of days ---------- Bill G.
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Re: cyclone engine February 10, 2006 01:37AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 25, 2006 12:53PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Friends, a cyclone update,
We will be attending the SAE World Congress
, April 2 thru 4, booth 2233, in Detroit. On display will be the 6 cyl auto engine mounted on a differintal and the up dated 2cyl engine, similar to the one that was run at the Berine Springs SACA meet, driving a generator.
We now have 6 cast blocks for the 2cyl eng. for more test and demo units. a one piece casting is the only way as the first two had fabricated blocks and was a never ending leak problem.
We will be in Chicago in October, San Tonanio in November. As Jim would say a lot of tired jaws.
Harry
We will be attending the SAE World Congress
, April 2 thru 4, booth 2233, in Detroit. On display will be the 6 cyl auto engine mounted on a differintal and the up dated 2cyl engine, similar to the one that was run at the Berine Springs SACA meet, driving a generator.
We now have 6 cast blocks for the 2cyl eng. for more test and demo units. a one piece casting is the only way as the first two had fabricated blocks and was a never ending leak problem.
We will be in Chicago in October, San Tonanio in November. As Jim would say a lot of tired jaws.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine February 25, 2006 02:02PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 215 |
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