cyclone engine
Posted by Harry Schoell
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Re: cyclone engine January 29, 2009 07:26AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,453 |
Hi Ken,
I quit my job with the Tradition Enforcement Squad a long time ago. Long hours, no pay, marshmallow bullets, Nerf nightsticks, "perps" laughing at me, forget it. Itchy Keystone Kops uniform too. There is no Tradition or Efficiency enforcement among steamerites, just "Mother Wag-Finger" on one side or the other now and then, easily and often ignored, and all-around technological "anarchy as usual". Yep, to each his own. Personally, I'd like to see any roadworthy new steam car, whether "luddite" or "space cadet" in design.
All,
I designed my main-engine-driven pumps for excess fuel and water delivery under any conceivable road condition, and it looks like this powerplant won't have any Stanley/Doble-style low-water/fuel problems, or any need for a White- or gas-car-style tranny or clutch. I had worried about jerky power drops/surges with "BIG" pumps ("big" by antique steam car standards) kicking on and off, and possible annoying throttle modulation to compensate, but the pump-induced changes in wheel thrust and net power don't look significant, judging by the numbers, even if these pumps turn out substantially less efficient than I expect. Maximizing pump (& other mechanical) efficiency is important.
See "Generator/Alternator Drive" thread for thoughts on an electric or steam condenser fan for extreme (exsteam?) conditions. Maybe Harry's got the right idea about electric condenser fans.
Bill: Weight/traction shift from front to rear wheels during acceleration. Traction favors rwd, or better yet 4wd. Rwd is far simpler, lighter, more compact, more efficient/powerful (less friction), and less costly, than 4wd. Not many front wheel drive sports or race cars out there, and the best-accelerating & fastest cars are rear-wheel drive, not fwd or 4wd. Boiler front, engine rear gives best f/r weight distribution, & thus better cornering too, not to mention better weight/structural load distribution (less load cantilevering to suspension) & thus a lighter car. These comparisons assume equally good basic engineering & materials, which is rarely the case.
Peter
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2009 07:38AM by Peter Brow.
I quit my job with the Tradition Enforcement Squad a long time ago. Long hours, no pay, marshmallow bullets, Nerf nightsticks, "perps" laughing at me, forget it. Itchy Keystone Kops uniform too. There is no Tradition or Efficiency enforcement among steamerites, just "Mother Wag-Finger" on one side or the other now and then, easily and often ignored, and all-around technological "anarchy as usual". Yep, to each his own. Personally, I'd like to see any roadworthy new steam car, whether "luddite" or "space cadet" in design.
All,
I designed my main-engine-driven pumps for excess fuel and water delivery under any conceivable road condition, and it looks like this powerplant won't have any Stanley/Doble-style low-water/fuel problems, or any need for a White- or gas-car-style tranny or clutch. I had worried about jerky power drops/surges with "BIG" pumps ("big" by antique steam car standards) kicking on and off, and possible annoying throttle modulation to compensate, but the pump-induced changes in wheel thrust and net power don't look significant, judging by the numbers, even if these pumps turn out substantially less efficient than I expect. Maximizing pump (& other mechanical) efficiency is important.
See "Generator/Alternator Drive" thread for thoughts on an electric or steam condenser fan for extreme (exsteam?) conditions. Maybe Harry's got the right idea about electric condenser fans.
Bill: Weight/traction shift from front to rear wheels during acceleration. Traction favors rwd, or better yet 4wd. Rwd is far simpler, lighter, more compact, more efficient/powerful (less friction), and less costly, than 4wd. Not many front wheel drive sports or race cars out there, and the best-accelerating & fastest cars are rear-wheel drive, not fwd or 4wd. Boiler front, engine rear gives best f/r weight distribution, & thus better cornering too, not to mention better weight/structural load distribution (less load cantilevering to suspension) & thus a lighter car. These comparisons assume equally good basic engineering & materials, which is rarely the case.
Peter
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2009 07:38AM by Peter Brow.
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Re: cyclone engine January 29, 2009 08:18AM |
Admin Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 2,120 |
Hi Bill:
No real hard and fast rules on FWD vs RWD. If you want to tow heavy loads, RWD wins hands down. Much is true of machines with hard acceleration like sports cars, doesn't hurt matters if the weight is shifting onto the drive wheels as you stomp the gas. FWD is a clear winner for production daily driver cars since the powertrain is one box you can assemble and install in a unit: cheaper to build, install and fewer compromises needed in the passenger compartment. Some will argue Bettle/Corvair/Porsche rear engine-rear drive is the best but the weight distribution doesn't always make for the best handling. As someone once noted, Ferdinand Porsche apparently thought people wanted a car that could go fast and skid off the road tail first in a tight corner. Best rule of thumb I have in this regard is that if you use 'store boughten' systems they are going to be a lot cheaper,lighter, stronger and more reliable than what you are likely to make yourself. Also more likely to get on the road based on labor involved. Even if you only needed and wanted a 2 speed transmission, I see no problems with buying a 4 or 5 speed manual and using that if the correct gear ratios are installed and the strength is right. No one is going to arrest you if you only use two of the gears and anything you build is likely going to cost more in time, money, effort and grief anyhow. Heck, the advantage of a reverse gear alone might make it worth it.Regards,
Ken
Regards,
Ken
No real hard and fast rules on FWD vs RWD. If you want to tow heavy loads, RWD wins hands down. Much is true of machines with hard acceleration like sports cars, doesn't hurt matters if the weight is shifting onto the drive wheels as you stomp the gas. FWD is a clear winner for production daily driver cars since the powertrain is one box you can assemble and install in a unit: cheaper to build, install and fewer compromises needed in the passenger compartment. Some will argue Bettle/Corvair/Porsche rear engine-rear drive is the best but the weight distribution doesn't always make for the best handling. As someone once noted, Ferdinand Porsche apparently thought people wanted a car that could go fast and skid off the road tail first in a tight corner. Best rule of thumb I have in this regard is that if you use 'store boughten' systems they are going to be a lot cheaper,lighter, stronger and more reliable than what you are likely to make yourself. Also more likely to get on the road based on labor involved. Even if you only needed and wanted a 2 speed transmission, I see no problems with buying a 4 or 5 speed manual and using that if the correct gear ratios are installed and the strength is right. No one is going to arrest you if you only use two of the gears and anything you build is likely going to cost more in time, money, effort and grief anyhow. Heck, the advantage of a reverse gear alone might make it worth it.Regards,
Ken
Regards,
Ken
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Re: cyclone engine January 29, 2009 08:41AM |
Admin Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 416 |
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Re: cyclone engine January 29, 2009 05:14PM |
Admin Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 2,120 |
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Re: cyclone engine January 29, 2009 06:57PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
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Re: cyclone engine January 29, 2009 07:12PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,519 |
Noooooo.
Everything is fine. Scott F. sent me an pm making a good point. I sent grajekk a pm, letting him know I that I was too hard on him. And sorry about that, sometimes I get a little full of myself.
Ken has done the necessary work already with the powertrain thread. Its done. I would like to hear from Harry about his press releases, but who knows, maybe he is working with self-sustaining robots???.
We do need new members here on the forum, I failed the phorum in that respect. Lets all take scotts lead and let this go.
Besides im sure Harry know's best how to proceed from this point. Lets give it some time... After all, these are perspective customers of Cyclone technology. Lets be colleagues, and show some professional courtesy.
Bill,
Now if you want to start a thread in the 'non-steam' section on wormholes and perpetual motors, im all for it. : ) j/k [just kidding]
best
jeremy
Everything is fine. Scott F. sent me an pm making a good point. I sent grajekk a pm, letting him know I that I was too hard on him. And sorry about that, sometimes I get a little full of myself.
Ken has done the necessary work already with the powertrain thread. Its done. I would like to hear from Harry about his press releases, but who knows, maybe he is working with self-sustaining robots???.
We do need new members here on the forum, I failed the phorum in that respect. Lets all take scotts lead and let this go.
Besides im sure Harry know's best how to proceed from this point. Lets give it some time... After all, these are perspective customers of Cyclone technology. Lets be colleagues, and show some professional courtesy.
Bill,
Now if you want to start a thread in the 'non-steam' section on wormholes and perpetual motors, im all for it. : ) j/k [just kidding]
best
jeremy
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Re: cyclone engine January 30, 2009 06:50AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 657 |
Jeremy,
I spent 30 seconds with Google and found. . .
[www.greencarcongress.com]
An interesting project for the Cyclone would be as a power plant for a vehicle in the autonamous computer controled "race". An event where the vehicles have a route placed in their guidance system and must complete the course without ANY human input during the event.
One of their big problems is getting the "soft vehicle movements down. A steam engine with Harry's simple two lever input would be great. Especially the capacity for low speed control and the lack of having to shift gears.
Caleb Ramsby
I spent 30 seconds with Google and found. . .
[www.greencarcongress.com]
An interesting project for the Cyclone would be as a power plant for a vehicle in the autonamous computer controled "race". An event where the vehicles have a route placed in their guidance system and must complete the course without ANY human input during the event.
One of their big problems is getting the "soft vehicle movements down. A steam engine with Harry's simple two lever input would be great. Especially the capacity for low speed control and the lack of having to shift gears.
Caleb Ramsby
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Re: cyclone engine February 09, 2009 01:32AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 180 |
In the for-what-it's-worth category, I was at the Washington Auto show/SAE kiss up to Government meeting last week, which had a heavy emphasis on all the dumb "we are greener than you" displays from the car companies. The government had a booth in one corner, and a really interesting project was highlighted about mechanical hybrids, using hydraulics. Replace the tranny and drive shaft with a hydraulic pump, put a variable-displacement hydraulic motor by the differential. The hybrid part comes from putting in large accumulators and shutting off the engine when you slow down. Pump up the accumulators for dynamic breaking, then use the pressure to accelerate. For busses, garbage trucks, delivery trucks (UPS is a main sponsor) it makes a lot of sense. I'm looking at making the accumulator housings, but tying this into a steam power plant might make a lot of sense.
Tom
Tom
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Re: cyclone engine February 09, 2009 04:00AM |
Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 10 |
Hi TH, hydraulics hybrids make a lot of sense, they are lighter and cheaper then adding a battery pack, electric motors, and such- they do a better job at regenerating braking and acceleration from a stop, and of course it allows instant stop/start technology - where it falls short of electric is at home recharging (the best I heard from an accumulator was 4-6 miles to a charge using a small electric motor to charge the accumulator when plugged in) where as plug-in-hybrids are claiming 10-40 miles all electric miles after a charge- also if the auto makers are smart they will set up these cars to be mobile generators- of course it's been a long time since the auto makers have been smart. The lightest accumulators are being made out of carbon fiber and even filled with hydraulic fluid are much lighter than batteries and will last pretty much forever.
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Re: cyclone engine February 09, 2009 10:11AM |
Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 73 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 09, 2009 02:19PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 180 |
Max,Billybob
The high pressure tank was a carbon fiber housing, bladder type using nitrogen. I want to try dual phase steel, but the hoop stresses for the size tank needed for this project are too high for the thickness I can get currently. They are looking at metal bellows types down the road.
The whole idea is to get rid of idling and low-speed inefficiency. Think how many times a city bus or garbage truck starts and stops in a day. Delivery trucks are almost as bad, but they are more concerned about weight, since a heavier truck can carry less cargo. That pushes the carbon as opposed to steel tanks. One other nice side effect is the drivetrain, since the type of hydraulic motor in the design will act as a CVT with nothing to wear out. The engine can be tuned for max efficiency.
As for plug-ins, I don't see a lot of benefit for this on medium trucks. Adding an electric pump to pump the tank to 7000 PSI overnight seems to be overcomplicating the design. If they do this for pickups, the energy storage to vehicle weight could make it worthwhile.
Tom
The high pressure tank was a carbon fiber housing, bladder type using nitrogen. I want to try dual phase steel, but the hoop stresses for the size tank needed for this project are too high for the thickness I can get currently. They are looking at metal bellows types down the road.
The whole idea is to get rid of idling and low-speed inefficiency. Think how many times a city bus or garbage truck starts and stops in a day. Delivery trucks are almost as bad, but they are more concerned about weight, since a heavier truck can carry less cargo. That pushes the carbon as opposed to steel tanks. One other nice side effect is the drivetrain, since the type of hydraulic motor in the design will act as a CVT with nothing to wear out. The engine can be tuned for max efficiency.
As for plug-ins, I don't see a lot of benefit for this on medium trucks. Adding an electric pump to pump the tank to 7000 PSI overnight seems to be overcomplicating the design. If they do this for pickups, the energy storage to vehicle weight could make it worthwhile.
Tom
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Re: cyclone engine February 11, 2009 12:37PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 180 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 11, 2009 04:58PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 25, 2009 02:12PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 14 |
Harry,
It as been some time since we last exchanged thoughts as my marine coating project and patents had two major buyers get whacked by this international finance mess as new ship building has come to a screeching halt so I am turning my "little gray cells" to a Syngas generator from an updated wood fire tube burner system. Is there any possible viable synergy between your Cyclone for a remote location electric generator and a modern wood burning Syngas system?
Best wishes,
Graham
It as been some time since we last exchanged thoughts as my marine coating project and patents had two major buyers get whacked by this international finance mess as new ship building has come to a screeching halt so I am turning my "little gray cells" to a Syngas generator from an updated wood fire tube burner system. Is there any possible viable synergy between your Cyclone for a remote location electric generator and a modern wood burning Syngas system?
Best wishes,
Graham
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Re: cyclone engine February 26, 2009 09:13AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
HI Graham
Yes we do have an intrest in this area and we are working on some of it. If you have some thing better than what we are doing that would be very welcome. This forum has a lot of talent and Cyclone would welcome this talent. At the present time we are hiring more tech people. The WHE engine is good for a wood burner and I would personaly like to see it in a small tractor like the one Jim Tanjamin built. Although the WHE's main pourpose is an electrical generator for waste heat and solar applacations. This is going to be a very big year for us.
contact me
Harry
Yes we do have an intrest in this area and we are working on some of it. If you have some thing better than what we are doing that would be very welcome. This forum has a lot of talent and Cyclone would welcome this talent. At the present time we are hiring more tech people. The WHE engine is good for a wood burner and I would personaly like to see it in a small tractor like the one Jim Tanjamin built. Although the WHE's main pourpose is an electrical generator for waste heat and solar applacations. This is going to be a very big year for us.
contact me
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine February 28, 2009 12:55PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 14 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 28, 2009 01:03PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
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Re: cyclone engine February 28, 2009 02:25PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Guys
just a few pics of the cyclone stack tester. This is for a similator to test the WHE engine in a waste heat stack. Of course this tester can generate mor than a normal waste heat from a stack. It will generate steam in 3 seconds and super heat in 8 seconds. The engine almost appears as an instant start up
Harry
just a few pics of the cyclone stack tester. This is for a similator to test the WHE engine in a waste heat stack. Of course this tester can generate mor than a normal waste heat from a stack. It will generate steam in 3 seconds and super heat in 8 seconds. The engine almost appears as an instant start up
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine March 01, 2009 03:09PM |
Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 83 |
Hi Harry!
Will the heat exchanger on the semi truck APU's bolt betweeen the exhaust manifold and the exhaust pipe lead, or will it be a setup that just clamps over the hottest part of the exaust pipe? (maybe just drill a few holes in the exhaust pipe and clamp the unit over it) One more quick one.. Is the GGMOM still on schedule for this year?
Thanks.. Ernie
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2009 03:23PM by grajekk.
Will the heat exchanger on the semi truck APU's bolt betweeen the exhaust manifold and the exhaust pipe lead, or will it be a setup that just clamps over the hottest part of the exaust pipe? (maybe just drill a few holes in the exhaust pipe and clamp the unit over it) One more quick one.. Is the GGMOM still on schedule for this year?
Thanks.. Ernie
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2009 03:23PM by grajekk.
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Re: cyclone engine March 01, 2009 03:19PM |
Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 83 |
Hi again Harry..
Now that I think about it, you could use multiple clamp on heat exchangers as there are usually about 3 sections of straight pipe in the exhaust system. You could convievably hook up 6 on a dual stack truck.. I would imagine at some point in the future if ices are still around, the whole pipe from manifold to muffler could be the heat exchange system.
Take care! E
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2009 03:20PM by grajekk.
Now that I think about it, you could use multiple clamp on heat exchangers as there are usually about 3 sections of straight pipe in the exhaust system. You could convievably hook up 6 on a dual stack truck.. I would imagine at some point in the future if ices are still around, the whole pipe from manifold to muffler could be the heat exchange system.
Take care! E
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2009 03:20PM by grajekk.
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Re: cyclone engine March 01, 2009 03:22PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 835 |
Hi Ernie,
It should be at the hottest section,however with the new diesel filter carbon traps that actualy burn fuel it might be behind this or included inside.
The G G MOM is on the back burner as of now as you are well aware of the many projects we are working on now, and there are more to come.
Harry
It should be at the hottest section,however with the new diesel filter carbon traps that actualy burn fuel it might be behind this or included inside.
The G G MOM is on the back burner as of now as you are well aware of the many projects we are working on now, and there are more to come.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine March 03, 2009 01:35PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 14 |
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Re: cyclone engine March 31, 2009 03:32PM |
Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 83 |
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Re: cyclone engine April 03, 2009 02:44PM |
Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 10 |
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Re: cyclone engine April 15, 2009 01:43PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 2 |
Cyclone update
We are looking to expand our engineering staff. Experience using Solid Works or high mechanical aptitude please call / send resume.
I felt that this was a good place to find some tallent
954 943 8721 601 N E 26th Court
Pompano Beach ,
Florida 33064 www.cyclone power.com
Thanks
Harry
We are looking to expand our engineering staff. Experience using Solid Works or high mechanical aptitude please call / send resume.
I felt that this was a good place to find some tallent
954 943 8721 601 N E 26th Court
Pompano Beach ,
Florida 33064 www.cyclone power.com
Thanks
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine April 16, 2009 05:32PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,519 |
Hi Harry,
Hi grajekk, good to see you posting...
Harry,
I went to the last [www.thesolidexperts.com] Rollout, earlier this year, as I was invited as a commercial user. Did not see you there.
Just to let you know, this is the best place to find both 'certified solidworks user's' and users. I have a commercial licence (4-solidworks), and had a chance to interact with the users for all the south-dade area. It was pretty nice and the hot-wings were excellent... But I did not see you there. Perhaps you attended the broward group.
Anyhow, I wanted to let you know that you can 'visit me at anytime' at the location listed on my website.. just give me a heads-up, before, you would like to visit. I feel my experience with instrumentation(fluke/thermocouples/ox/sensors etc) could give you an edge.
Best
Jeremy
Hi grajekk, good to see you posting...
Harry,
I went to the last [www.thesolidexperts.com] Rollout, earlier this year, as I was invited as a commercial user. Did not see you there.
Just to let you know, this is the best place to find both 'certified solidworks user's' and users. I have a commercial licence (4-solidworks), and had a chance to interact with the users for all the south-dade area. It was pretty nice and the hot-wings were excellent... But I did not see you there. Perhaps you attended the broward group.
Anyhow, I wanted to let you know that you can 'visit me at anytime' at the location listed on my website.. just give me a heads-up, before, you would like to visit. I feel my experience with instrumentation(fluke/thermocouples/ox/sensors etc) could give you an edge.
Best
Jeremy
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Re: cyclone engine April 17, 2009 01:03AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 180 |
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Re: cyclone engine April 24, 2009 03:04PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 2 |
Hi Jeremy
Sorry for the slow answer had trouble logging in. You are more than qualified and would like to use your services if possijble. Call me at your convience. Would like to visit, however I can't seem to get a way toooo much to do that is why I need help. Thanks for the invitation.
Hi Tom
We desided not to go to Detroit this year but will be there next year. It takes a lot out of us to go. I need to play catch up. We did place a full page add in the center fold of program.
Harry
Sorry for the slow answer had trouble logging in. You are more than qualified and would like to use your services if possijble. Call me at your convience. Would like to visit, however I can't seem to get a way toooo much to do that is why I need help. Thanks for the invitation.
Hi Tom
We desided not to go to Detroit this year but will be there next year. It takes a lot out of us to go. I need to play catch up. We did place a full page add in the center fold of program.
Harry
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Re: cyclone engine April 26, 2009 11:18PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 180 |
Hi Harry,
Just as well you skipped the SAE Congress this year. There were literally half the exhibitors compared to two years ago, and I understand it will not be in Cobo next year. Even the Chinese cut their booths way back.
A lot of the booths were for "green" projects, and I got several engineers from places like Delphi and the GM tech center to admit it's just window dressing to keep the government off their backs. That's harder to do now. Chrysler submitted a realistic business plan to save the company based on their real-world situation. Their overseer slammed it, saying he did not understand why in six months they did not have any new high efficiency green projects ready for market. No one seems to have told him it takes about two years to get a new design ready, IF you have enough money to pay all those engineers and designers, which Chrysler doesn't.
Words to dread: " I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."
Gave my presentation about advanced high strength steel and motor mounts. I wasn't laughed off the stage so I guess I did ok.
Tom
Just as well you skipped the SAE Congress this year. There were literally half the exhibitors compared to two years ago, and I understand it will not be in Cobo next year. Even the Chinese cut their booths way back.
A lot of the booths were for "green" projects, and I got several engineers from places like Delphi and the GM tech center to admit it's just window dressing to keep the government off their backs. That's harder to do now. Chrysler submitted a realistic business plan to save the company based on their real-world situation. Their overseer slammed it, saying he did not understand why in six months they did not have any new high efficiency green projects ready for market. No one seems to have told him it takes about two years to get a new design ready, IF you have enough money to pay all those engineers and designers, which Chrysler doesn't.
Words to dread: " I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."
Gave my presentation about advanced high strength steel and motor mounts. I wasn't laughed off the stage so I guess I did ok.
Tom
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Re: cyclone engine April 27, 2009 07:02AM |
Admin Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 416 |
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