What's the latest on Jim Crank's Doble book?

Terry, et al,

My publisher, Phil Wood at Ten Speed Press (kathy@tenspeedpress.com) has not communicated for the past two months. I have no idea when he intends to really start the editing, picture selection, or caption writing process.
The last word I got, scond hand, was that his editor liked the book, 340 pages of just text alone, and Phil said that we start in June or July.
OK, if he doesn't start by the end of July I am tearing up his contract and will look for another publisher, or forget the whole thing.
Phil contacted me about publishing the Doble book, I didn't contact him; but his followthrough stinks.
You guys can bombard him with e-mails if you like, maybe it might get him to get off his derrier and start going with the book. He will not answer the e-mails; but I know for a fact that he reads every one of them.

Jim

Hi Jim

We do mostly year book publishing here at Walsworth. We do a verity of other books as well. We can do almost any size run. I can talk to our people in that department and get more details.

I mainly work on Adobe PageMaker and Indesign plugins for the School Yearbook processes.

A lot of our book are technical. Like medical texts, CRC hand books and such.

Andy

Andy,
Thanks very much. Let's wait until the end of July, as I promised Phil.
Then I will certainly investigate other publishing sources.
The book is in Word 98.
Jim

What ever happened with Jim's Doble book?

Andy

Nothing happened to it.
The publisher vanished and refused to answer phone calls or e-mails.
A backer has emerged and we are in negotiation about completing the book and printing it.
A reliable publisher has been found and I await the printing costs for the book.
Until this is all settled, nothing new to report.
When it really gets going again, I will post that message here.

Jim



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2009 10:17AM by James D. Crank.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2009 04:58PM by Amish man.

Dear Jim, With your recent health issues, you had all of us worried about the Doble book's future. The world's steam history needs your book badly. With your vast knowledge of Doble, there's no one else in the world as qualified as you to publish a Doble book. It would be a terrible thing to let this history opportunity get lost for ever. Thank you for continuing on with getting your book published. Pat Farrell

Pat,

The surgery went like clockwork. What is really damaging is having to lie flat on your back for six weeks.

Just so you know the scope of this book on the Doble, the primary volume is 573 pages, the Appendix with all the reference material in it is 220 pages and the total photo count is 1020. The real problem was what pictures are not all that relevant, and which ones tell the story. I could have added another 200 photos. We had to stop somewhere.

Amish Man, What on earth does this have to do with the Doble book?

Jim

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2009 04:58PM by Amish man.

Amish Man,

I have no idea where you get your ideas; but you are 100% wrong in all cases.
Since you have no knowledge whatever of why and how the Doble book is being published, why it was written in the first place, what Doble and Besler family members eagerly contributed, it might be to your advantage to not say anything and avoid making an even bigger fool of yourself.
I have no thoughts whatever of answering you in detail and Scott ought to erase such ridiculous statements and not print them,

Jim

Amish man,

I have been waiting on this book for many years now. Jim is the only one with good knowledge of Doble, if he doesn't write it no one will, because no one else has the photos, notes, and personal experience.

I will purchase at least one copy as will many others here.

Best,
Scott Finegan

Amish Man,

since you are new to the forum, im sure that SITE ADMIN, is giving you some slack. I think its good that you have so much enthusasim with respect to steam engines.

One point I would like to make here, is that Jim, has the key to relevent steam engine technologys. Not to mention his considerable experience with them.

When I started to study steam engine technology, I found much information of locomotives, steam ships, power plants and the like. Its astonishing how absent the information is, related to steam cars, as said before Jim holds the key to this. That being said, there is also tonns of stuff related to steam cars in the SACA store room, generally produced by club members over the years, and other sources.

If you would like to further "your" knowledge, I suggest that you look into the work of Serpollet.

[www.scienceandsociety.co.uk]

Jeremy

Hi Jim
Really good news the book is still going to be published. Looking forward to buying my copy and getting a few more sales once I've shown it round down here in NZ.

Cheers
Mark

Hello Jim,

Yup, looking forward to the book also. Glad to hear that you are doing OK. I got your e-mail but have been too busy to do more than read it right now. Will get back to you.

Best Regards, ------ Bill G.

Jeremy,

If you really want a good cry, allow me to tell you a sad story.
Griff Borgeson, probably the most respected auto historian known, met Serpollet's granddaughter. She had two of those old fashioned steamer trunks packed full of her grandfather's papers, notes, drawings and all, right from the beginning. We were going to collaborate on a definitive book on Serpollet, a really big one. Then Griff died from a blood clot that could have been avoided if the French physicians had acted fast.
I do indeed miss his friendship and the exciting things he wanted to do that I was going to assist on. Actually, I put him up to the Serpollet project and when he investigated Serpollet, he leaped on the idea.

The Doble book has been an off and on project for fifteen years at least. Then some extremely valuable papers came my way one night with a weird phone call. I bought the material and it got things started. For years you just couldn't get your hands on real research papers and photos. The books written were most often fairy tales.
There was-is so much baloney about Doble and the cars flying around that it literally took years to dig out the truth. Once most of the story was verified and I had paperwork to back it up, I got started and wrote the book. The problem always is that when you think you have it all put together, then you turn over one more rock and out comes more stuff that must be verified and included in the story.
The end of the company was one real mystery, I had to hire a paralegal to sort out all the court doings. Then one night again, I was offered Howard Hughes's sale slip for E-22. how could I refuse? Things like that kept popping up.
The gathering of the story and paperwork took years and cost about $45K, buying collections and Doble artifacts all over the world; but it was all worth it. I now felt confident that I could relate the complicated goings on accurately.

One big ongoing problem is my editor takes things out and I put them right back in again. It will be the whole story to the best of my ability or nothing.
Now we have it together. Then the first two publishers vanished and I had to get that heart valve replaced. I hope things are back on an even keel once more.

Jim

Hi Jim,

I must admit, the fact that you survived at all, making steam cars run, you would be a draw to such obscure documents. It seems at one point or another, were all standing by the side of the road, where gravel is, moving stones with our feet, feeling sad about what could have been.

The best way that I cope with all this, is that once I build anytype of complete machine(prototype) I vow(to myself) not to cannibalize it for parts.


Best



Jeremy

Glad to here you are doing well. I plane on buying your book if you get published.

Andy

Jeremy,

No need to stand on the side of the road, only putting your feet on that path takes a lot of logical thinking and ample cash to get it done. Today, it means turning your back on old methods and finding and using the best technology. The technology and materials are there; but folding them into one powerplant is not an easy engineering task at all.
Right now, only Harry has done this to my way of thinking. It's called sticking your neck way out and putting your money where your mouth is! Designs that really are pushing the material and durability limits to the last degree.

There really is no secret on how to make a good and efficient steam car, never has been. The trick is power density and efficiency in the use of the steam, and add as much regenerative heat exchanging as you possibly can. These demands drive the design to using very high pressure and as much superheat as present materials will possibly permit. They also tell one what ideas to abandon, like slide or piston valves, using injected oil, large clearance volumes and low compression.
Then put your engine system on a dyno and run it to destruction, fix what broke and go at it again until you really have what you were after in the first place.

It's a real challenge and one is learning all his lifetime, no one knows everything.

Jim

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2009 04:59PM by Amish man.

I said that piston valves are not as good as poppet valves, due to needing lots of cylinder oil. This limits the usable steam temperature.
Abner used poppet valves in the Simplex engine and in the McCullogh car.
The Series D, E and F Doble cars are not unaflow. Only the Doble-Detroit and Simplex were unaflow and the Simplex was really a semi-unaflow. The McCullogh engine was unaflow too.
Read the engine design binder that Abner wrote and SACA sells. The first 40 pages tell it all and why.

Jim

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2009 04:57PM by Amish man.

Amish Man and other newbies

A little research pays dividends. This is a site with a good proportion of the Doble material online.[www.oac.cdlib.org]
Also there is a book available from Tom Kimmel and [shop.stanleymuseum.org]

Two variants of later Doble compound engines.
[www.oac.cdlib.org]
[www.oac.cdlib.org]
Picture inside engine cylinders with no sign of uniflow ports
[www.oac.cdlib.org]

Brian

I really enjoyed the Jay Leno's webvideo of his Doble. Jay mentions Jim Crank as the most knowledgeable person of Doble and his Cars.

Brian,

That first drawing is for the first version of the Series E engine. Note that the piston valve is parallel to the cylinder bores. Then after one engine, Abner changed the design, he didn't like that valve pushrod offset. Why that mattered is unknown, as in the second version the ports are now uneven in volume, not nice. It also meant new cylinder patterns and castings and a new crankcase. And you wonder why Dobles went broke, it wasn't just the stock fraud trials. Warren told me once that he dreaded going to work when Abner was around, said every day he had a new idea and they had to stop and make it an put it on someone's car and test it.

The second drawing is the revised Series E engine with the inclined valves.

That third photo is one of the compound cylinder blocks for the Henschel railcars or maybe the Sentinel trucks, I think. It is not something out of the Emeryville factory for car use. You are right it is not unaflow; but a standard counterflow compound with piston valves.
Have to go into the archive to be sure; but I have an original print of this one. Sentinel did do their own enlarged and much beefed up version of the Doble F engine for their railcars, as did Prices in New Zealand for their steam bus project.

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2009 10:02AM by James D. Crank.

Harry has done a fantastic job. Looks like you've helped him out a little too Jim

I think this drawing is the F compound, but I can’t read the title block.
Rolly

Rolly,

Yes, that is the Series F compound car engine.

An early drawing, as it does not have the two counterweights that Besler added, or the extra cross brace to keep the frame from moving.
Note that it uses the Buick differential and back axle. The first test run, it blew up and the car plopped down on the springs and axle housings, or what was left of them, with oil running all over the street,
Warren gave it full throttle and BANG. Barney Becker and Walter Welch were in the back seat.
Said that the Dobles then had to use a version of the E differential and that wiped out the cost savings of using the Buick rear end. Too much torque for the Buick parts.

I do like those big piston valves and the nice porting, along with using the exhaust ball joint for the front engine hanger. Keeps the ball lubricated.
Those ports are typical Besler, short and straight. Good breathing, something else Abner never really understood.
The only bad thing about the F engine were those blind bores in the cylinders, costly and hard to machine.

I have the original drawing for this engine.

Jim

Thankyou Jim

Where can you buy this knowledge and experience? The Doble book needs to get into print.

As you mentioned before all Serpollet's files were lost to history. I happen to have a circa 1905 233page book titled Manuel Du Conducteur De Voitures Serpollet. aimed at chaffeurs and describes differnces between models and their operation, no drawings though.
Do you happen to know which Serpollet used a flat four uniflow?

Karl Petersen's video at [www.firedragon.com] is another great example of passing on knowledge and experience that can save some of us repeating history.

All the best
Brian

Brian,

I don't think the Serpollet files are actually lost; but Griff never told me her address. He did say that except for the fact that he was introduced by a VP friend at Peugeot, that she probably would never have talked to him. Very suspicious lady apparently.

The Beaumont books "Motor Vehicles and Motors" of 1903-5 have much about Serpollet. Also some things in various A. Q. issues on the Turner-Meisse cars built under license and almost identical to the French Serpollet.
Light Steam Power once published a catalog of the cars, unfortunately a really bad copy. LSP also ran a multi issue thing about Serpollet.
"Steam Cars 1770-1970" by Montague and Bird has quite a bit on Serpollet. What they say about the White and Doble cars is so wrong, I have suspicions about anything else in the book.

Didn't all of them except for the last double acting cars use single acting flat four or six cylinder engines? Seems to me that is what is in various books that even mention Serpollet.

Jim

All files from this thread

File Name	File Size		Posted by	Date
two cyl compound.jpg	274.1 KB	open | download	Rolly	10/29/2009	Read message
Serpollet5hp.jpeg	35.2 KB	open | download	Brian McMorran	11/22/2009	Read message
Serpollet-engine.jpg	133.5 KB	open | download	Brian McMorran	11/22/2009	Read message
2cyl uniflow.jpg	31.2 KB	open | download	Brian McMorran	11/22/2009	Read message
russian-serpollet-3.jpg	41.3 KB	open | download	Brian McMorran	11/23/2009	Read message
Doble Shipping List	52.5 KB	open | download	Jim Crank	03/07/2010	Read message