"The most over-engineered Steam Engine in the World"

This is an utterly fascinating look at the power plant of a Swiss sidewheel steamship.

Most Over-Engineered Steam Engine

Some of the technology is reminiscent of the Skinner uniflows that I have seen board the SS Badger, and some is utterly different. There are practices quite similar to those found in the engine room of a Nimitz class nuclear aircraft carrier and other things that more resemble Civil War era Mississippi river boats. It's really a fascinating melange of technologies.

Ken

Thanks Ken for sharing.
I love large marine steam engines. As well as just large steam engines.

When I was a young boy my farther took my brother and I to see all kinds of large engines.

Attached is a link to one of the only remaining of six pumping engines in Boston.
I saw this engine running as well as one of the other of the six as a boy. They no longer have a boiler to run it.

Boston water steam pumping engine?

[waterworksmuseum.org]

Rolly

Hi Rolly,

I wanted to comment earlier but had to deal with a funeral and relatives visiting.
.
That's an utterly fascinating piece of machinery. Other than the odd reciprocating Bilge and Stripping Pump, my career largely dealt with turbomachinery and rotary pumps. It actually takes a moment to equate reciprocating equipment on such a large scale with the turbines and rotary pumps I would instinctively expect to find in such uses. Obviously, this is much more interesting on a visual level -- turbines are just boxes with some plumbing and a shaft sticking out the end producing horsepower -- if you look carefully, you might see some tiny movement in a control mechanism, but mostly you would miss it. Exposed rods, cranks and valve gears take an entirely different perspective. Rotary equipment is vastly superior from an operational standpoint, but there's something sterile in that compared to the older technology.

Regards,

Ken

In Boston the next generation of power plants were the Curtis vertical steam turbines, this photo of the L street plant I took was in the old unused section of the plant.
I computerized this plant around 1980 long before fifteen acres were converted to public use.

Rolly

Interesting! That sort of looks like an old General Electric vertical shaft Curtis turbine -- circa roughly 1910.

Ken

It is a Curtis vertical turbine, only the next generation. Hard to believe the whole turbine and generator weight rotated on the end of the shaft with only a water-cooled bearing.
Originally they had large piston driven generators then eight small Curtis vertical generators and next the large one I posted. When I computerized the plant they had two horizontal turbines running at 3600 PSI.
There is still a plant on the end of Cape Code burning Gas running at 4000 PSI.

Rolly

Rolly,
I was at Northeastern University (Huntington Ave., Boston) in 1980 taking Mechanical Engineering. I'm curious how you computerized this shop when I was learning Fortran IV, using card decks/batch processing. We punched out the cards to execute the programs. The IBM 360 was just coming out. Wondering how you computerized this shop?

If I knew this shop existed, I would have surely visited it. I was a frequent visitor to the Museum of Science (back bay, Boston). They did have a large Corlis running on air. Afraid that's all I remember there for steam.
Rick

Rick I have never used punch card programming. My friend Rod Teel just passed away always used punch card programming in his shop. My old Bridgeport mill used G code tape drive. There is a program you can get to convert AutoCAD drawings to G code but you have to edit it for the G code your machine uses.

Rolly

Hi Rolly,

The only vertical shaft turbines that I ever worked with were used for the ship's main engine condensers and they drove a propeller pump. As I recollect, they were single stage impulse turbines to keep things simple and trouble-free -- really high efficiency wasn't mandatory because the exhaust steam was a useful resource for the Reduced Pressure Steam System. Much better than reducing main steam at a total loss. These pumps were only cut onto the main line when moving at low speed through the ocean. As the ship picked up the pace, we would secure the pumps and shift to scoop injection -- non-return valves being fitted to each flow path. Given the ridiculous amount of water that the circ pumps would use, I was always curious as to just how much seawater was passing through the scoop.

My memory of the circ water pump is especially strong because the first day I reported to the division, I heard the division officer bitching everyone out for consistently not obeying the uniform regulations perfectly, to whit: "M-Division can do the hard things, like last week when you pulled a main circ water pump, replaced the bearings, and reassembled it all on the same day. But M-Division can't do the simple things like patch the holes in their dungarees." Amazing, it would have taken the shipyard a few weeks to do that job, what with all the paperwork and union featherbedding. Suffice it to say that Div O was a true legend in his own mind -- would you trust a nuclear officer nicknamed "SCRAM"? Accidentally initiating an emergency reactor shutdown during an Operational Reactor Safeguard Examination because you were trying to show off your knowledge rather than following procedure is a somewhat worse offense than holes in uniforms....

Regards,

Ken

The turbine and generator on the vertical twelve-inch shaft of the Curtis generator was supported by a film of water at a pressure of 1200 PSI by a double acting high-pressure pump. I was looking for photos on my computer and memory sticks and realized there on 35.MM film some where in boxes. I wrote a story years ago for live steam magazine.

Rolly

Hi Rolly,

The whole idea of mounting the generator and tubine on a bearing using 1200 psi water is a bit mind bending. Our main circ pumps used a small Kingsbury pivoted shoe thrust bearing. In fact, there was a Kingsbury on each of the main engine drive shafts. Any bearing that can support a propeller turned by a 70,000 horsepower engine is pretty capable. Better yet, the pivoted shoe bearings were oil lubricated and yet needed no pump. By pivoting the shoes, the bearing scooped up the surrounding oil and forced it between the tilting pads and the thrust collar. The pivoting action also made the unit self-regulating.

As usual, the Navy training manuals have the least detailed drawings -- meaning they most clearly illustrate the basic principles of operation.

Triple Expansion Marine Steam Engine on the Icebreaker Stettin

Thanks Ken, brings back fond memories.
My first Steamboat was a model steam Tug. It ran at 75 PSI and also had a steam cylinder to through the valve gear over for reverse.

Rolly

Oh, I love the Icebreaker Stettin. I had the luck being on it several times. The engine room looks like someone threw a bunch of Worthington duplex steam pumps in it for all sorts of shenanigans. (you know - those crankless, simplistic pumps)
Funny enough, they just have the most era-fitting navigation instruments on board. I don't even remember seeing any radar. The only modern stuff was an UHF radio, which is required globally for big ships. But nothing more. Just plain old brass. God, they had to remove me with a plunger from that ship!
The Swiss ones are close to where I live atm. They are really beautiful and quite popular in the german speaking model steam engine builder community as inspiration. Like the holy grail of steam model building in the german speaking steam nut community

All files from this thread

File Name	File Size		Posted by	Date
776-Summer_Edison-Turbine_1 (1).jpg	150.4 KB	open | download	Rolly	12/20/2022	Read message
GE turbine logo.png	528.9 KB	open | download	frustrated	12/20/2022	Read message
GE Curtis Turbine.png	969.3 KB	open | download	frustrated	12/20/2022	Read message
PA230004.JPG	209.7 KB	open | download	Rolly	12/21/2022	Read message
KINGSBURY THRUST.png	165.6 KB	open | download	frustrated	12/22/2022	Read message
Tug.jpg	198.5 KB	open | download	Rolly	12/23/2022	Read message
Tony and me.jpg	527.6 KB	open | download	Rolly	12/23/2022	Read message