Alternative engines
Posted by Steamcarstartup
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Re: Alternative engines September 06, 2022 08:51AM |
Hello:
Welcome to the forum. Not sure why you are dis-positioned that people on this forum would not receive you well. I'm interested in talking about a steam hybrid car. I'm in the process of building a Stanley replica with many new ideas planned to go into it. Although not a hybrid, it does provide for a platform to try out some new ideas.
Note that a catalytic converter is a bad idea. I wouldn't re-engineer the Doble, just improve upon it. Don't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
On one hand you suggest electric heat. Then you say a high cost to replace the car batteries. You need to focus on what is important to the success of a modern steam car. For you to inquire and my response actually helps me to focus the main points:
- multi fuels and easy conversion to the external burner. External combustion is inherently cleaner. Renewable fuels and options with various fuels provides flexibility. Burning hydrogen would be the cleanest method and is an easy application.
- the steam engine like the electric motor has max torque from a stall. This allows for the engine to be direct drive, no transmission.
- electric heat if coming from the braking energy like on a hybrid car...is a good idea. Even better if used to create hydrogen and burned to produce heat.
I've attached these concepts before...again to stimulate thought. Again, welcome and just trying to provide good thought interaction.
Welcome to the forum. Not sure why you are dis-positioned that people on this forum would not receive you well. I'm interested in talking about a steam hybrid car. I'm in the process of building a Stanley replica with many new ideas planned to go into it. Although not a hybrid, it does provide for a platform to try out some new ideas.
Note that a catalytic converter is a bad idea. I wouldn't re-engineer the Doble, just improve upon it. Don't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
On one hand you suggest electric heat. Then you say a high cost to replace the car batteries. You need to focus on what is important to the success of a modern steam car. For you to inquire and my response actually helps me to focus the main points:
- multi fuels and easy conversion to the external burner. External combustion is inherently cleaner. Renewable fuels and options with various fuels provides flexibility. Burning hydrogen would be the cleanest method and is an easy application.
- the steam engine like the electric motor has max torque from a stall. This allows for the engine to be direct drive, no transmission.
- electric heat if coming from the braking energy like on a hybrid car...is a good idea. Even better if used to create hydrogen and burned to produce heat.
I've attached these concepts before...again to stimulate thought. Again, welcome and just trying to provide good thought interaction.
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Re: Alternative engines September 07, 2022 09:34AM |
A quick story that might be interesting...I was recently at the NYS Fair in Syracuse NY. I went to the NYSERDA (new york state energy research & development authority) booth to ask about energy rebates for going Geothermal at my house. The immediate question was what do you use for heat right now? My response is I burn natural gas. Since I already have a clean burning system, I would not be able to get any rebates.
There is a lesson learned from this experience. That is NYS is interested in clean energy and not so much on efficiency nor renewable fuel options.
The other rebates that were offered and advertised is the electric car rebate. One can get up to $2,000 off the purchase of an electric car that has a 200+ mile range. $1,000 of a range of 40 - 199 miles. $500 of a range of under 40 miles. And the most interesting is a $500 for an electric car with MSRP less than $42,000. Lesson here is that range is the incentive.
Last thing that was super hot was the urgency to install electric solar power on your roof. Serious incentives for this and not for you to invest into the solar farm. Lesson is to have distributed electric power and not rely on the grid so much.
So let me summarize what this experience tells me regarding the idea of producing a steam car to compete in the market:
- what ever the hybrid steam car uses for fuel, it must be really clean burning. This is priority one.
- the range of the steam car needs to be around the 400 mile mark. This is twice the incentive range mentioned above.
- this is a tricky one, to have the fuel or energy source at home or at your house. Electricity seams to be the main contender for this. However, this should spark some interesting discussions?
Let us imagine a steam car in existence that is parked in your driveway. How will it be fueled or better question is how will the car be charged for commuting or for trips? From locomotive history, switcher steam engines were charged with steam from a stationary steam plant. There is significant capacity with a volume of water at the phase change point on a T-S diagram. This means the development of a thermal battery as apposed to an electric battery. I think most everyone already has a hot water tank in their house that stores, you guessed it, hot water.
How about if we take a 400 mile trip? The thermal battery will only get you maybe ~50 miles. So now the car gets significantly more complicated for it needs to carry water, generate heat for making steam and would need to condense the steam after the traction effort to conserve the water along with recouping brake energy like the electric car.
I want to address the 400 mile trip but need to go back to the home energy steam plant that can thermally charge the car. With PV solar, the electricity is pretty good for the home. It can be used to heat, cook and hot water. However, I would suggest a conversion of my natural gas, condensing furnace to hydrogen. This way I don't need to invest in a pricey heat pump system. I can produce hydrogen from the PV panels and store it right at my house. I can instantly produce the hydrogen and burn it to produce heat. No need to store it in this situation.
Now to address the 400 mile trip. I would suggest the use of hydrogen to burn and produce heat. Perhaps there might be a breakthrough in atomic hydrogen burner...controversial at this point. What would be better, to carry hydrogen tanks or carry electric batteries to produce the hydrogen instantly for burning or both? Keep in mind the recouping of braking energy. Let us not dwell on the cold winter temperatures in NYS, especially where I live, at this point.
While you think about that question, please enjoy some steam bike concepts.
Rick
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2022 09:37AM by Rick.H.
There is a lesson learned from this experience. That is NYS is interested in clean energy and not so much on efficiency nor renewable fuel options.
The other rebates that were offered and advertised is the electric car rebate. One can get up to $2,000 off the purchase of an electric car that has a 200+ mile range. $1,000 of a range of 40 - 199 miles. $500 of a range of under 40 miles. And the most interesting is a $500 for an electric car with MSRP less than $42,000. Lesson here is that range is the incentive.
Last thing that was super hot was the urgency to install electric solar power on your roof. Serious incentives for this and not for you to invest into the solar farm. Lesson is to have distributed electric power and not rely on the grid so much.
So let me summarize what this experience tells me regarding the idea of producing a steam car to compete in the market:
- what ever the hybrid steam car uses for fuel, it must be really clean burning. This is priority one.
- the range of the steam car needs to be around the 400 mile mark. This is twice the incentive range mentioned above.
- this is a tricky one, to have the fuel or energy source at home or at your house. Electricity seams to be the main contender for this. However, this should spark some interesting discussions?
Let us imagine a steam car in existence that is parked in your driveway. How will it be fueled or better question is how will the car be charged for commuting or for trips? From locomotive history, switcher steam engines were charged with steam from a stationary steam plant. There is significant capacity with a volume of water at the phase change point on a T-S diagram. This means the development of a thermal battery as apposed to an electric battery. I think most everyone already has a hot water tank in their house that stores, you guessed it, hot water.
How about if we take a 400 mile trip? The thermal battery will only get you maybe ~50 miles. So now the car gets significantly more complicated for it needs to carry water, generate heat for making steam and would need to condense the steam after the traction effort to conserve the water along with recouping brake energy like the electric car.
I want to address the 400 mile trip but need to go back to the home energy steam plant that can thermally charge the car. With PV solar, the electricity is pretty good for the home. It can be used to heat, cook and hot water. However, I would suggest a conversion of my natural gas, condensing furnace to hydrogen. This way I don't need to invest in a pricey heat pump system. I can produce hydrogen from the PV panels and store it right at my house. I can instantly produce the hydrogen and burn it to produce heat. No need to store it in this situation.
Now to address the 400 mile trip. I would suggest the use of hydrogen to burn and produce heat. Perhaps there might be a breakthrough in atomic hydrogen burner...controversial at this point. What would be better, to carry hydrogen tanks or carry electric batteries to produce the hydrogen instantly for burning or both? Keep in mind the recouping of braking energy. Let us not dwell on the cold winter temperatures in NYS, especially where I live, at this point.
While you think about that question, please enjoy some steam bike concepts.
Rick
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2022 09:37AM by Rick.H.
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Re: Alternative engines September 13, 2022 07:48AM |
So I provide some steam consulting on occasion to help out with the development of new and exciting steam car developments. I helped design an Ofeldt to go into a later model Stanley Car and helping guide a Team who wishes to set the new Steam Land Speed Record (LSR).
I'm actually gearing up to produce new and exciting version(s) of the Ofeldt. I have a standing offer to make the boiler (steam generator) for that LSR Team. I'm interested to talk with anyone else who would like to develop a steam car.
So far, I have jumped over several hurdles.
To keep things exciting, attached another motorcycle concept using the twin clam boiler along with some other development pictures. The Clam is an air preheater. This boiler would use spiral fire tubes. The bike is a hybrid, note the electric generator incorporated to prove heat regenerating braking.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2023 09:41AM by Rick.H.
I'm actually gearing up to produce new and exciting version(s) of the Ofeldt. I have a standing offer to make the boiler (steam generator) for that LSR Team. I'm interested to talk with anyone else who would like to develop a steam car.
So far, I have jumped over several hurdles.
To keep things exciting, attached another motorcycle concept using the twin clam boiler along with some other development pictures. The Clam is an air preheater. This boiler would use spiral fire tubes. The bike is a hybrid, note the electric generator incorporated to prove heat regenerating braking.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2023 09:41AM by Rick.H.
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