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Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project

Posted by wwilliam7 
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 11, 2022 08:47AM
plus pic on the 4-5-6-7 polynomial cam profiles. Note that Dr. Art Gardiner used. I dont think my engine will rev more than 1000 rpm.
Boiler: yes so i think feed back the hot condence water is good to go. , can i use a ac compressor with its cooling element in the condenser? I will bend exhaust piped and welded togheter as my monotube boiler.
Differential: yes i dont know the best way to go yet. Direct drive or connected to diff. If so the engine will be geared 50 50. So the drive wheels will spin at same rev as engine.
Check my new pic on my engine layout.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2022 08:48AM by wwilliam7.
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 14, 2022 06:03AM
i did some calculatoin smiling smiley should be good to go with this construction. the vulcan piston is 1 liter 100mm bore piston the atlas copcocompressor piston is about 200mm 4 liter , 4 times bigger should be very good pressure drop from 50 bar down to 0.2 bar. smiling smiley compaunding. what do you think? ,iether 180 degre or 90 degre set crank with reciever.


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 16, 2022 02:54AM
I wonder if alloy pistons will work? They were tried in the UK in a Stanley but the greater expansion of the alloy relative to the cast iron cylinder bore quickly caused them to seize. Plenty of clearance might help.

Mike
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 16, 2022 07:14AM
Maybe the best way to approach alloy pistons is to use the same cylinder bore diameter as in an IC engine using the same sized piston.
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 16, 2022 10:54AM
For a compound, I would start with 50% cut-off in both HP and LP. After some speed and higher RPM is achieved, then one can reduce the cut-off.

Also, start the engine using a Simpling Valve (White Steam Engine). This provides steam initially to both HP and LP at the same time.

Instead of re-inventing the wheel, use an existing uniflow design and scale it up or down to the size you want. I use the term analysis paralysis. Where you'll never build anything.

It took me 9 years to design and build this one of kind steam bike. This is a clean sheet design.

Rick's Steam Scooter

Last, I would only use a receiver compound if performing re-heat. If no re-heat, go as a direct passage to the next stage.
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 16, 2022 11:21AM
Here is one of a handful of engines which I think utilizes the theoretically optimum piston for single-acting steam engines. You will see that the piston is dumb bell-shaped, with rings on each end. This is advantageous in the following circumstances:

High pressure
Low RPM
Long cutoff

In each of the above conditions, a piston will experience increasing steam blowby with the worst case scenario being the high-pressure cylinder in a compound engine running at low rpm using steam at elevated pressure.

As steam passes the upper set of rings, it drops down to atmospheric pressure, which is maintained by way of the small ports in the cylinder wall. (These ports can, obviously, be eliminated in uniflow engines). Dropping to atmospheric pressure means that the steam and/or condensate has no pressure to force its way past the lower set of rings to contaminate the crankcase.

Not that I am not necessarily favoring this particular engine. For one thing, while T and L heads simplify valving arrangements, they suck because too much clearance volume is introduced. Overhead poppet valves would be better. A semi-uniflow would be better yet, allowing us to shrink the aux exhaust valve and increase admission valve size -- allowing for better flow even with reduced valve lift and accelerations.


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 17, 2022 04:58AM
if that case that has to be calculated at a certain working temp, yes mayby IC engine gap between aloy piston and iron wall work with same gap as in in a IC. In my steam book hermods steam engines it sais 1-3 mm gap between piston and wall but that is a iron piston tho.

the gap in a uniflow is very importent due to the thermodynamic conditoin. i talked with some enginering people and they said milling the cyl bore wider at top is only for academic interest.

-do you think i can use the original piston and cylinder in the vulcan chopper engine as it is with its original gap? offcourse rebult to doubleacting tho



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2022 05:01AM by wwilliam7.
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 17, 2022 05:13AM
Here is one of a handful of engines which I think utilizes the theoretically optimum piston for single-acting steam engines. You will see that the piston is dumb bell-shaped, with rings on each end. This is advantageous in the following circumstances:

High pressure, Low RPM, Long cutoff

In each of the above conditions, a piston will experience increasing steam blowby with the worst case scenario being the high-pressure cylinder in a compound engine running at low rpm using steam at elevated pressure.

As steam passes the upper set of rings, it drops down to atmospheric pressure, which is maintained by way of the small ports in the cylinder wall. (These ports can, obviously, be eliminated in uniflow engines). Dropping to atmospheric pressure means that the steam and/or condensate has no pressure to force its way past the lower set of rings to contaminate the crankcase.

Not that I am not necessarily favoring this particular engine. For one thing, while T and L heads simplify valving arrangements, they suck because too much clearance volume is introduced. Overhead poppet valves would be better. A semi-uniflow would be better yet, allowing us to shrink the aux exhaust valve and increase admission valve size -- allowing for better flow even with reduced valve lift and accelerations


my engine will be double acting so no oil in chrankcase, but good idea with that ports in cyl wall to suck out the leaking seam between with that bell shaped piston smiling smiley my problem is to get 90degree working between piston to not get stalled, im not in favor using resiever that will reduce the efficiency, a 180 degree passing the steam directly to the LP cylinder thou.

but again what do you guys think driving the car with 180 degree "fire" (working phases) between , will it get stalled easely?
if i can use this setup, i only need a HP and LP cyl 2 cylinder engine very easy to build compare to more cylinders.
-will the acceleratoin be much better with 90degree between strokes as in a steam train?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2022 05:24AM by wwilliam7.
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 17, 2022 05:18AM
]Rick.H Wrote:
For a compound, I would start with 50% cut-off in both HP and LP. After some speed and higher RPM is achieved, then one can reduce the cut-off. Also, start the engine using a Simpling Valve(White Steam Engine). This provides steam initially to both HP and LP at the same time.
Instead of re-inventing the wheel, use an existing uniflow design and scale it up or down to the size you want. I use the term analysis paralysis. Where you'll never build anything. It took me 9 years to design and build this one of kind steam bike. This is a clean sheet design.
Last, I would only use a receiver compound if performing re-heat. If no re-heat, go as a directpassage to the next stage
.

cool bike, it sound comlicated using an extra simple valve for both HP and LP Cyl, cant i use my setup? at start hp will get 80% steam admission, and then the LP get admissin after 180 degree resieving the steam from the hp cyl. i was going to use a starter with its flywheel for getting moving from dead zero


.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2022 05:22AM by wwilliam7.
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 17, 2022 07:36AM
William,
I attached your latest concept for reference.In there you state a double action, semi-uniflow compound engine. The engine is planned to be a direct compound. So let us work with this engine concept.

Your Volcan Piston idea will not work...bad idea. Stop trying to use internal combustion components for a steam engine. The ratio between bore and stroke is wrong. Use a proven steam engine design and modify from there.

You need to understand the way a piston engine works and apply the steam accordingly. Here is the key. Crank angle and cut off need to correlate. For example, on my 10 HP Stanley Steam engine, my valve cuts off the steam at a crank angle of 90 degrees from top dead center. Why,,, Because the piston movement starts to de-accelerate (slow down) at that point. To keep pressure on the piston after this point is counter productive. Best to just use the expansive work of the steam for the duration past 90 degree. Then if you want to conserve pressure, cut off lower than 50% to what ever you can to improve efficiency and maintain function.

Now you plan for a double action uni-flow. The cylinder arrangement is different. To achieve the operation you would like, the cylinders will be quite long relative to the bore or piston diameter. This is why there isn't a double acting uniflow compound that has been proven. So I would say if I understand your arrangement, it is a bad idea.

Please don't get discouraged. If you like the Skinner uni-flow compound, modify the configuration to a 90 degree concept as opposed to a steeple. Or try working with a 2 cycle Diesel engine and turn it into a uniflow compound. A lot of the configuration depends on the use. If for a motorcycle, then the 90 degree skinner might be good.

Note that I talk with this guy, Billy on a regular basis. He holds the motorcycle land speed record at north of 80 miles per hour. This is the same 10 HP engine used in his bike frame that I mentioned. This gives an idea of how the engine configuration is applied to a vehicle. Note, he runs the speed run in cut-off to save the steam pressure. I don't know what that value is, haven't figured it out yet.

Listen, kind regards,
Rick


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 18, 2022 06:16AM
I disagree, many Ic engines have been converted succesfylly smiling smiley , to gain good function a crosshead is needed as in my concept, what is bad with my vulcan alloy piston and comperssor copco alloy piston? What ratio is wrong? The stroke is the same as stanly and doble, 12.5cm stroke. The LP piston is 4 times bigger, ideal for a compaund,
-the problem is there is no good steam engine even out on the market, all was very bad, with poor efficiency, around 5 %, as your stanly engine, total crap engine for reaching any efficiency. 50% cutoff? That could not even be 3% efficiency , how can that be good? With a heavy slide or piston valve its impossible to reach 5-10% cut off, with poppet valve it is. 50% cvutoff is total catastophy anyway, i will go 5-20% cut off for good efficiency with a single cyl, with my compaund, i can get the same efficiency with longer cutoff say 30-40% becaouse the enormous expansion with the LP piston. their is even almost no uniflow engine outthere to find, have to build oneself or convert a IC engine.

you said: quite long relative to the bore or piston diameter, how can this stop a good engine working? There has been much uniflow engines succesfull made, in the past they used very big heavy iron pistons with no milled pistons at all, a piston with walls around no holes,. Todays piston almost have no piston wall just a small one on eaxh side to cope with the side forces, its even alloy so the double acting pistons would be very light compare to the past pistons in uniflow engines. The friction should be many times less compare to a car engine with 4 pistons. Instead of 4 stroke its 1 stroke.

We dont have any 2 stroke diesel in sweden, so i cant use that. Yes if o go for 90 degre i hace to use a resiver hope that will work out good.
-is that a stanly engine 10hp or a homemade one?
-however i have to weld 2 opposed pistons togheter so i get em double acting then attach a piston rod, i my past when i was young 20 year i tryed convert a brigg stratton engine but i didnt have any tool or so to proceed



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2022 04:56PM by wwilliam7.


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 18, 2022 07:25AM
Gee I thought a studied all the good books, George Corliss, Abner Doble, and the great Nathanael Green Herreshoff and more.

Never saw one by you, I’ll look again.

Rolly
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 18, 2022 04:57PM
what do you mena im not an expert, but i think you were ironic
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 19, 2022 07:55AM
Hi William,
To achieve credibility, you need to build and demonstrate your concept(s). Talk is cheap. I'm not going to debate concepts.

My engine on my steam bike is custom made, direct drive on the rear wheel and is a 1-1/2" X 6" bore and stroke respectfully. Double acting

My 10 HP Stanley is ~1904 original Stanley Engine. It is a 3' X 4" bore and stroke. It is a direct drive to the rear wheels via 40 teeth driving and 80 teeth driven on the rear differential.

Trying to be helpful...the Stanley Engines range as follows:
2-1/2 X 3-1/2 considered a 6 HP engine, used on Locomobile Buggy
3 X 4 ...................................10 HP engine, used on Stanley CX and EX. Note that Rolly owns an EX
3-5/8 X 5..............................20 HP engine, used on the Stanley Gentleman Speedy Roadster, H5
4 X 5 ...................................20 HP engine, used on mainly the later Stanley Cars
4-1/2 X 6-1/2 .......................30 HP engine, used on Stanley Mountain Wagon

All these engines are successful. Please compare the bore and stroke, the ratio, to internal combustion engines. You'll see that there is big difference. There is a good reason that the Steam Engines are this way. Steam mass flow rate is significantly slower than that of combustion gas. Pretty sure that the bore/stroke ratio is the difference to account for this flow rate.

I understand that it takes equipment to build a steam engine or modify engines to run on steam. You'll have to sort that out. I attached a link of a gentleman that does show some good build techniques. The actual design is up for debate. If video isn't at beginning, drag the video back to the beginning.

How It's Made - Steam Engine

My challenge to you, build the welded piston and install in a uniflow, double acting cylinder. Report how it works on this forum.

My intent is to be helpful,
Rick
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 20, 2022 04:18PM
thanks, nice bike you have, what i can se is stam engines have slitghtly longer stroke for expanding time for its steam as you say, the stroke is a little more than the bore but not much, IC engines are often in same bore/stroke ratio thats true, what is your recomendation in bore? the HP piston is 100mm , cut off will be 10-30% at crusing speed around 50 bar, trying getting down to 0.2- 0.3 bar in LP piston,
the LP cylidner should be 2.5 to 4 times as big in volume, 220mm piston give 4 liter , thats 4 times volume. should be good but the piston is enormous. is it to big? i was trying go for 3000cc piston, around 150mm bore piston but cant find anyone, you you have a recomendeation cylidner? instead of this atlas compressor piston in 220mm? the piston should be very heavy and slowrunnig. but the steam engine will not runt more than 500-1000 rpm anyway so, have to be sligtly balances to to work with HP piston. smiling smiley
i will build it.
i think i begin with the HP piston in the engine and test how good it works,
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 21, 2022 07:29AM
I recommend a Bore/Stroke ratio of ~.7.

A quick story to relate to some advise to you. There was this nice gentleman who built a Doble Triple expansion compound. I have the highest regard for him and his family. He passed away before successful completion/demonstration of the engine. My opinion, he tried to take on too much at once. Better to start small and economical to prove out concepts and work toward a verifiable design. I wrote an article in the Bulletin about this gentleman, Gar Dickerson.

I'm excited to hear that you will start with a HP single cylinder uniflow engine. From there you can use PV=nRT to develop the steam to the LP cylinder, hypothetical at this point. Focus on getting your concept to run and measure it. Just trying to make or aquire the components will be difficult and then to build will be challenging. I use the number 3 principle when building prototypes. Plan on making 3 elements or components to get one that works.

Let us know your progress...


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
June 22, 2022 07:35AM
A couple of things in effort to be helpful. When I post this, it helps me re-think and re-evaluate concepts.

I imagine that poppet valves will simulate a D slide valve through a cam. Attached is a D slide valve simulation of my 10 HP Steam Engine. You can correlate the timing.

Also, I include a piston valve concept, just for reference.


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
July 07, 2022 05:38AM
thanks, you mean you have ideas of buildning av stem engine driven by d slide valve actuated by a cam?

in my relative high reving engine i must use a poppet valve howewer, but with a compaund cylinder i can use much longer cutoff wich would simplify the cams and get better function, say 25% cutoff instead of 5-to 10%
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
July 08, 2022 08:16AM
Since you asked...my future engine(s) will be a piston valve double acting, 2 cylinder engine. It will be ceramic in that I'll use a iron pipe sleeve and surround it with a special formulated concrete ceramic. Then wrap it in poly cord like the wrapping of the Stanley boiler with piano wire.

There will be 2 types: 2 X 5 which will be capable of high pressure, and 3 X 5 which can receive the steam as a low pressure engine. Hope this gives you some ideas...


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
July 19, 2022 05:08PM
Since you asked...my future engine(s) will be a piston valve double acting, 2 cylinder engine. It will be ceramic in that I'll use a iron pipe sleeve and surround it with a special formulated concrete ceramic. Then wrap it in poly cord like the wrapping of the Stanley boiler with piano wire.

There will be 2 types: 2 X 5 which will be capable of high pressure, and 3 X 5 which can receive the steam as a low pressure engine. Hope this gives you some ideas...


sounds nice, the low pressure have to be 2.5 to 4 times bigger thou so you know. how do you thnik about the valvesw? poppet valves with cams ord piston valve?
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
July 20, 2022 11:08AM
The 2.5 to 4 times bigger is not set in stone. It really depends on your overall design and what you are doing with it. There are many factors to consider.

I think you are asking my opinion on poppet valves verses piston valves. No one has ever asked that of me and I have to think a moment to answer.

Piston Valves:
Piston valves typically use an eccentric to actuate the valve. The linkage that allows forward and reverse is by most popular, the Stephenson Linkage. One needs to consider valve steam and exhaust lap along with lead. My 10 HP Stanley engine uses the Stephenson Linkage. One thing that I recently learned is that when one cuts-off the engine, it actually provides more lead and allows steam to enter the cylinder before piston reaches top-dead-center (TDC). This accounts for wire draw. Steam does not travel as fast as combustion gas in an internal combustion engine. Some folks refer to lead as timing. The way to set the timing is to set up the valve position while in hook-up (cut-off) as it is referred to.

I included some pictures of my steam powered scooter. It is a D slide valve. It doesn't use a cam and the valve is actuated from a lever off the crank pin like a locomotive. This is indicative of a Walschaerts design. I actually like this idea and will incorporate it in the piston valve engine...someday.

Poppet Valves:
I have not experienced poppet valves directly like I have explored the Stephenson valve applied to the piston valve. This is my Engineering perspective. One does not need to factor in steam lap nor exhaust lap because the cam can move the valve precisely in relationship to the rotation of the crank. You can machine the cam to set the cut-off where ever you want. The cam can get more complicated in that if one wants to add lead or advance the timing, the cam needs to be made three dimensional. This is complicated to perform and really needs to be machined with CNC machining. The earliest example of this would be on the Serpollet Engine.

Serpollet had to create te poppet valve engine to handle the super-heated steam and at relatively higher pressure than that of the day typical for the locomotives. I don't know if he had cut-off and applied lead or advanced the timing. Being in Europe, you may have more access to his history than me here in the USA.

In summary, my opinion, that the piston valve provides for the best all around solution for what I'm trying to with it. Hope this helps with your design development.


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
July 21, 2022 06:05PM
One of my dreams has always been to try a large scroll compressor in reveres as an expander for a steam engine. Just need the right seals. Large expansion ratio.

Rolly
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
July 25, 2022 08:49AM
Hey Rolly...never to late to try. A scale model is within your reach.

As a point of reference, my steam scooter uses Nylatron piston rings. I would consider this application successful. While at Teleydne CAE, we CNC'd a centrifugal compresser for a small gas turbine engine. It worked, great seal. However, it's life was limited. Just a thought...


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
July 25, 2022 10:08AM
Rick
I was looking at a carbon impregnated Teflon ratted at 2500F but could not find a source.
Also to be used on forced circulation steam generator pump.


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
July 26, 2022 07:46AM
I wonder how expensive it would be to get into plasma spray. At CAE we plasma sprayed Nickel-Graphite for the labyrinth seals between turbine sections. This was on the F107 cruise missile turbo-fan gas turbine engine. The labyrinth seal abrades and provides a superior air seal. We worked with Inconel 718 a lot, that's what we sprayed Ni-Graphite onto.

Another thought, just rambling on, is to plasma spray electrodes for high temp electrolysis. Nickel is more noble than Chrome and will resist galvanic reaction with the impurities in the water such as Iron. This place is in Concord NH.

Plasma Spray

At this point, it is fun to dream.
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
July 26, 2022 09:49AM
Rick
The pump shaft and shaft housing is Invar 36 ( almost pure nickel ) no expansion or contraction up to 600F, same stuff the lens housing used on the Hubble telescope.

The seals and bearings are PTFE, the invar housing is also water cooled with feed water passing around the bearing housing.

When I sent the castings down to Tom I sent the shaft of Invar with them, I had two many other projects going to continue. I had no need for a forced circulation generator.

At the time I had two marine boilers under construction and also the Derr boiler for the 1920 Stanley. I also had some very large construction projects going on at work. The big dig in Boston had started.

Rolly


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
August 11, 2022 03:31AM
hi i talked with a expert working with fridges and ac compressorns his hole life, i described my 2 stage, compaund, going down to 0.2 bar vacuum if possible and he agreed was no problem with a ac compressor cooling the exhaust steam with a condenser exaktly as in a car, the ac compressor is driven from the crank smiling smiley i also found the biggest piston out there, a diesel piston 150mm wide, should be good to go for the LP piston, mayby i have to go lower then with the HP piston in diameter if lp piston is 150, then mayby 80mm wide? 2.5 to 5 times bigger is needed?

i think the LP compressor piston is to big to be honest its 25cm wide. in the 150mm piston the bolt is huge and very robust built for high load. it seems to have awsome good sealing with its piston ring also



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2022 06:19PM by wwilliam7.


Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
August 11, 2022 07:13AM
Isn't the system going to be very inefficient with a refrigeration cycle added to the Rankine cycle. All the profits from the steam engine will be lost to the HP requirement for the refrigeration pump.

Most compound steam engines use a vacuum created from some type of heat sink. On a Ship, this would be the ocean. Most steam boats use a keel condenser. On a steam car, a radiator is used. However, it is not as effective as the earlier examples. The Doble with a compound engine uses a radiator. And on a hot day, it loses water to the air not condensed in the radiator. Not sure what the vacuum effect is on the LP piston. However, I think it is not significant.

Since your thinking about an efficient car project, perhaps there is some development(s) to use an air exchange condenser that works as the car develops speed. This might be some kind of a curved surface that as air flows over it a vacuum is created. The guy after Doble, named Besler, did create a car that used the fenders and body parts to help with condensing the steam. It really didn't go anywhere.
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
August 11, 2022 06:24PM
how do you mean the ac compressor take all the profit and power from the crank? a car condenser only takes about 3 horsepower,.
the huge efficient rise would benefit the small losses, right? say with a condenser 18-20% efficiency, with out mayby 12-14%.


mayby several small cooling condenser radiators placed to capture most wind would get me good vacuum.

but my latest ide is to use a spray condenser described in my steam book.
the spray condenser, is spraying colt water, on a pipe with fins, in the pipe the exhaust steam is passed being cool down to vacuum, this should be very effective, but would need mayby 20-30L water refill every 20-50km range? what do you think guys?smiling smiley



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2022 06:30PM by wwilliam7.
Re: Uniflow steamengine at 20% efficiency in a car project
August 11, 2022 07:51PM
William,

You are trying to get something for nothing. Suppose we need to rid the condenser of 1,000,000 BTU per hour in order to condense down to low subatmospheric pressure. You will need to use a 1,000,000 BTU refrigeration unit to cancel out the energy in the steam.

The First Rule of Thermodynamics states that we can neither create nor destroy energy -- we can only convert it from one form to another. If we can't make or destroy energy, then we can never get more out of a system than we put in. In fact, in the real world, you will get less out than you put in because some of the energy will be wasted as heat, friction, vibration, and so on.

Let's look how this plays out. In order to power your refrigerant system, you want to take power from the crankshaft. A really good steam engine would develop about 1 horsepower for every 5 horsepower worth of fuel that you burn (even if your engine is better than 20 percent efficient, you need to account for boiler efficiency, pump friction, and so on).

Refrigeration systems are also relatively inefficient, a quick internet search suggests that 35 percent would be doing extremely well indeed. If we round that to 33.333 percent, we need about 3 horses from the crank for every 1 horsepower of cooling effect. Multiply that 3 horses by the 5 horsepower worth of fuel you need to produce each crank horsepower and you find that you are burning about 15 horsepower worth of fuel to get one horsepower worth of cooling.
.
Always remember TANSTAAFL -- There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch -- it's a colloquial way of stating the First Rule of Thermodynamics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2022 07:51PM by frustrated.
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