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Stanley 30 Hp Rocket Engine November 17, 2021 07:21AM |
Hi Rolly,
I'm starting a new thread about this engine. You know Billy Barnes, I'm working with him to model the 20 HP Engine in the H. He has some desire to use it for a new LSR...I can't say any more. As you know, this engine is a 3-5/8 X 5 engine. According to Fred Marriot, this was best and fastest engine. Not sure if his statement was before or after the K version with the 30 HP engine. I do think, my opinion, that the ratio of the 3-5/8 X 5 is excellent for expansion and operation of a steam engine.
For all, I wanted to confirm the 30 HP Rocket engine was 82 teeth engine to 42 teeth rear-end. Also to complete a calculation on engine rpm that the wheels were 33 inch outside diameter (OD)? For some reason, I thought that the wire wheels were at 30 inch OD. Please confirm.
Also, any information on the valve and ports on the 30 HP engine, i.e. what was the steam lap, exhaust lap and the angle of advance? Then if the engine had hook-up (reduced valve travel) along with if this was favored to the larger volume of the cylinder?
Example of my 10 HP valve model.
Kind regards,
Rick
I'm starting a new thread about this engine. You know Billy Barnes, I'm working with him to model the 20 HP Engine in the H. He has some desire to use it for a new LSR...I can't say any more. As you know, this engine is a 3-5/8 X 5 engine. According to Fred Marriot, this was best and fastest engine. Not sure if his statement was before or after the K version with the 30 HP engine. I do think, my opinion, that the ratio of the 3-5/8 X 5 is excellent for expansion and operation of a steam engine.
For all, I wanted to confirm the 30 HP Rocket engine was 82 teeth engine to 42 teeth rear-end. Also to complete a calculation on engine rpm that the wheels were 33 inch outside diameter (OD)? For some reason, I thought that the wire wheels were at 30 inch OD. Please confirm.
Also, any information on the valve and ports on the 30 HP engine, i.e. what was the steam lap, exhaust lap and the angle of advance? Then if the engine had hook-up (reduced valve travel) along with if this was favored to the larger volume of the cylinder?
Example of my 10 HP valve model.
Kind regards,
Rick
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Re: Stanley 30 Hp Rocket Engine November 17, 2021 08:25AM |
I wrote an article on the 1906-7 Rocket for the Bulletin. I don’t remember what volume it was in.
In the Scientific American magazines Feb 10 1906 The body is also listed to be eighteen inches from the bottom edge to the top edge before the top cowling is attached. With these numbers sixteen feet and eighteen inches it gives one a side profile of the car body with out the curved top sections. I draw in AutoCAD and started drawings based on these numbers. The wheel diameter is obtained by the tire size The rear or driving wheels are fitted with 34 x 3-1/2 and the front wheels with 34 x 3-inch standard G. & J. clincher tires. The wheelbase is listed in the early publications as one hundred inches. But where the wheels are located in relationship to the body needed to be established. Corburn Benson was kind enough to let me do CAD drawing of his early thirty horsepower narrow frame engine. With these dimension of the engine attached to the rear end a reasonable located of the rear wheels was able to be established and hence the front wheels. In the Scientific American magazines Feb 10 1906 it is reported the radius of the back is eight inches. This is wrong, as after installing the engine to scale the minimum I could get was ten and one half inch radius to clear the cylinder block.
The original engine was a piece of junk had no hookup and the steam ports right into the cylinder head very pour steam flow passages.
Rolly
In the Scientific American magazines Feb 10 1906 The body is also listed to be eighteen inches from the bottom edge to the top edge before the top cowling is attached. With these numbers sixteen feet and eighteen inches it gives one a side profile of the car body with out the curved top sections. I draw in AutoCAD and started drawings based on these numbers. The wheel diameter is obtained by the tire size The rear or driving wheels are fitted with 34 x 3-1/2 and the front wheels with 34 x 3-inch standard G. & J. clincher tires. The wheelbase is listed in the early publications as one hundred inches. But where the wheels are located in relationship to the body needed to be established. Corburn Benson was kind enough to let me do CAD drawing of his early thirty horsepower narrow frame engine. With these dimension of the engine attached to the rear end a reasonable located of the rear wheels was able to be established and hence the front wheels. In the Scientific American magazines Feb 10 1906 it is reported the radius of the back is eight inches. This is wrong, as after installing the engine to scale the minimum I could get was ten and one half inch radius to clear the cylinder block.
The original engine was a piece of junk had no hookup and the steam ports right into the cylinder head very pour steam flow passages.
Rolly
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Re: Stanley 30 Hp Rocket Engine November 18, 2021 10:22AM |
The early Stanley engines had a lot of faults compared to today standards.
They were only designed for cars that went 10 to 15 MPH on dirt roads.
Not the 40 to 50 MPH most guys I know are pushing them. Some like Brent to 75 to 80
With big Red and big Green his 30 HP cars. I once roar with him holding 70 MPH. Pressure never dropped. We were on a winding country road. I asked if he ever rolled the tires off the rimes, he said not on this car.
Lots of frame rods have broke and cylinder block hubs where they connect.
I have made lots of frame rods from 4340, 108,000T. Then I started making box frames
With three plates using water jet cut plates of 4140, 95,000T.
This stopped all twisting of the frame and saved the cross heads as well.
One problem with the narrow frame 30HP was the pure design of the overall engine and the cylinder block, the steam ports came into the threaded area of the cylinder heads. The threads were ground away on the heads in the area of the steam ports.
Look closely at the photo; three threads are gone for over three inches of the circumference.
My cylinder heads and other engine castings are all cast in Ductile 85-55-06.
Rolly
They were only designed for cars that went 10 to 15 MPH on dirt roads.
Not the 40 to 50 MPH most guys I know are pushing them. Some like Brent to 75 to 80
With big Red and big Green his 30 HP cars. I once roar with him holding 70 MPH. Pressure never dropped. We were on a winding country road. I asked if he ever rolled the tires off the rimes, he said not on this car.
Lots of frame rods have broke and cylinder block hubs where they connect.
I have made lots of frame rods from 4340, 108,000T. Then I started making box frames
With three plates using water jet cut plates of 4140, 95,000T.
This stopped all twisting of the frame and saved the cross heads as well.
One problem with the narrow frame 30HP was the pure design of the overall engine and the cylinder block, the steam ports came into the threaded area of the cylinder heads. The threads were ground away on the heads in the area of the steam ports.
Look closely at the photo; three threads are gone for over three inches of the circumference.
My cylinder heads and other engine castings are all cast in Ductile 85-55-06.
Rolly
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Re: Stanley 30 Hp Rocket Engine November 23, 2021 11:50AM |
Thank Rolly...I'm in the right ballpark.
I use excel a lot at work and performing these simulations. It works well for me. My simulation is up to 3 sheets and well over 100 lines per sheet. The picture attached earlier is just the beginning. It will take me a few weeks to complete the calculations and permutations. I'm measuring and re-measuring my 10 HP Stanley to verify numbers. I use pictures and then draw lines in paint brush to figure out stuff (example attached). I believe my Stanley Engine is around a 1904. I'm working with Billy Barnes on a 20 HP version that is more challenging.
An interesting note is that the 10 horse, I can use 16th of an inch as increments. And on the 20 horse, I need to use 32nd of an inch as increments.
Here is the next query...Fred must of run with Hook-Up or some type of reduced valve travel, cut off. Do you have any information on that?
Kind regards,
Rick
I use excel a lot at work and performing these simulations. It works well for me. My simulation is up to 3 sheets and well over 100 lines per sheet. The picture attached earlier is just the beginning. It will take me a few weeks to complete the calculations and permutations. I'm measuring and re-measuring my 10 HP Stanley to verify numbers. I use pictures and then draw lines in paint brush to figure out stuff (example attached). I believe my Stanley Engine is around a 1904. I'm working with Billy Barnes on a 20 HP version that is more challenging.
An interesting note is that the 10 horse, I can use 16th of an inch as increments. And on the 20 horse, I need to use 32nd of an inch as increments.
Here is the next query...Fred must of run with Hook-Up or some type of reduced valve travel, cut off. Do you have any information on that?
Kind regards,
Rick
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Re: Stanley 30 Hp Rocket Engine November 23, 2021 03:22PM |
Rick
The engine did not have hookup built on it, it did have reverse with the Stephenson links. But that does not mean a notched bar was not in the cockpit on the control arm. Some of the linkage is on display at the Nascar museum in NC. I have never found a notched bar for hookup.
Rolly
The engine did not have hookup built on it, it did have reverse with the Stephenson links. But that does not mean a notched bar was not in the cockpit on the control arm. Some of the linkage is on display at the Nascar museum in NC. I have never found a notched bar for hookup.
Rolly
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