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Thomson Surrey

Posted by frustrated 
Thomson Surrey
August 14, 2021 09:34PM
Hi Folks,

I found this picture of a Thomson Steam Surrey -- circa about 1899 -- that was in the Wolfpen Automotive Museum. According to the Massachusetts Secretary of State, the Museum was chartered in 1941 and was dissolved in 2012. Does anyone know of the disposition of this vehicle, who might now possess it, and whether or not photos are available?

Regards,

Ken


Re: Thomson Surrey
August 16, 2021 03:18AM
Surprisingly advanced for the year! What an interesting car - let's hope ot turns up so we can hear more of it.
Mike
Re: Thomson Surrey
May 28, 2022 02:35AM
Hello Ken. I have just recently joined this forum . I noticed your post regarding the Elihu Thomson steam car. From the Wolfpen auto museum I am the owner of that car . The story of how I acquired is is a book in itself . I have tried to get information on it when it was owned by the Wofipen automotive museum but to no avail

Chris Sorensen
Re: Thomson Surrey
May 28, 2022 12:10PM
Hi Chris,
Welcome to the Forum.

Any chance you have photos you can post?
Re: Thomson Surrey
May 29, 2022 02:00AM
Hi Scott. We are away from home back in a couple of weeks so will post photos then. am presently working on the burner. It’s original burner is a bit like a garden sprinkler and I have not got it to work. otherwise it is all there and pretty much in line with the photo from the museum you posted

Chris
Re: Thomson Surrey
May 29, 2022 06:43AM
Chris I am originally from Massachusetts moved to Florida in 2005. Do you know how
The Wolfpen auto museum liquidated the cars. Was there an auction or did they sale off the cars one by one. Curious.

Rolly
Re: Thomson Surrey
May 31, 2022 07:13AM
Hi Chris,

I would have responded to your post earlier but I was out in an area without cell coverage during the holiday weekend.

The original reason for asking about the Thomson machine is that I have been writing a book on General Electric steam cars for Tom Kimmel to accompany other books such as the Yuba steam tractor, Baker, Scott-Newcomb, Winslow, Brooks, Delling and other makes. There is tons of technical literature surrounding the GE efforts since they apparently patented almost everything. The problem is that the history behind the cars is sort of sketchy and photographs are nearly non-existent; since GE didn't manufacture any of the vehicles, they received only superficial coverage in the press at that time. Tom owns one of the second generation GE wobbler engines, so that's one set of photos. (I know it is second generation since the engine possesses auxiliary exhaust valves in the cylinder heads, transforming it from a uniflow to a semi-uniflow as per their patents).

If there is any chance of obtaining information about the car, along with photos of the vehicle and/or power plant, I would be highly appreciative. If you are interested, I can send a rough copy of the book as it currently stands -- only asking that it not be shared since Tom is purchasing the rights.

Regards,

Ken


.
Re: Thomson Surrey
June 10, 2022 05:41AM
Hello Ken. I don’t seem to be able to attach photos so if you would like to send me your email I will send you photos which I took today. The history as best I know it is that an Australian business man Robert Homes a Court purchased it from the Wolfpen museum around late 1980. He died in 1990 and his collection was auctioned by Sotheby’s in Melbourne in 1992. Mr David Revelle who had a large collection of steam purchased it. David died a couple of years ago and have been fortunate to have acquired it. I have a 1903 Grout Stanhope and a 1901 Locomobile I am working on getting it steaming again. Look forward to making contact
Chris Sorensen
Re: Thomson Surrey
June 10, 2022 07:26AM
Hi Chris,

Photos need to be about a 1 megabyte maximum. Most cameras these days take potos 2mb or larger.
There are apps for phones that allow you to resize photos.
For Windows, look for "RIOT" (Radical Image Optimization Tool)
Re: Thomson Surrey
June 10, 2022 07:57AM
Hi Chris,

My sincerest thanks for the photos -- I had pretty much given up hope of finding a good depiction of a GE vehicle.

My e-mail is: kenatgm@aol.com

Warmest Regards,

Ken
Re: Thomson Surrey
June 10, 2022 10:47PM
Hi....playing with photos...not sure if this will work..cannot preview it... Chris
Attachments:
open | download - Thomson (25.9 KB)
Re: Thomson Surrey
June 13, 2022 03:15AM
Yes that works - downloaded and opened with Firefox browser. Nice car

Mike
Re: Thomson Surrey
August 12, 2023 12:26PM
Hi Folks,

Chris sent a couple of videos of the car on jacks, but running on steam from the original circa 1900 boiler. The videos can be seen at the SACA Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/steamautomobile/



Ken
Re: Thomson Surrey
August 17, 2023 08:52AM
Hi Chris,

Do you live in New England some where...I'm guessing? I'm planning a trip to see John Bowditch in NH. Okay to perhaps stop by? You can private message me for details.

Rick Heinig
Re: Thomson Surrey
August 17, 2023 06:00PM
Hi Rick,

It would be an epic drive! Chris lives in Australia.
Re: Thomson Surrey
August 23, 2023 08:25AM
Yeah...my bad. Ken, it would be an epic drive! Are you up for being the copilot? spinning smiley sticking its tongue out
Re: Thomson Surrey
August 24, 2023 11:09AM
I lost my chance to visit Australia back in 1980 -- we were crossing the Indian Ocean at the sort of sustained ship speeds which require nuclear power when the Iran/Iraq War broke out. We had to turn around to do some not-very-subtle intimidation to stop both countries from shelling oil tankers and the situation never cooled down enough for us to return to our previously scheduled liberty port. I'd seriously like to visit some day but I'm afraid that it would be too difficult a drive. I figure we could get running fast enough to skim the wave tops, but eventually we'd run out of fuel and that would be that...
Re: Thomson Surrey
August 29, 2023 09:52AM
On the club Facebook page, we have two new videos of the General Electric / Elihu Thomson Steam Surrey running under its own power. (Links at bottom)

When dealing with a vehicle almost 125 years old, we can't expect the first run to not have problems. Incredibly, the steam system appears to have functioned well, it was the steering that was an issue. The tiller is connected to a steering box, which seems unnecessary for a tiller mechanism. One of Thomson's assistants, Hermann Lemp, designed a "steering check" that was a moderately successful aftermarket component until steering wheels took over. (The driver has very little mechanical advantage when using a tiller and hitting a rock, rut, or stump can jar the wheel and yank the tiller from his grasp -- or at least cause the wheels to turn and run the car off course. The steering check was a hydraulic mechanism with check valves that allowed the operator to turn the wheels easily, but prevented shock from travelling in the opposite direction. This became unnecessary when steering wheels came into fashion since they were not only geared down, providing more mechanical advantage to the driver, but usually used a worm and sector mechanism which tends to restrict transmittal of forces back to the driver.

(For a 1900 Horseless Age article regarding the Lemp Steering Check, go to: Lemp Steering Check

It's quite rewarding to see such an old, historic vehicle back in operation -- and almost incredible that it has happened so quickly. Obviously, residing in a museum keeps a car in much better shape than in a barn.

Videos:

Third Thomson Surrey video

Fourth Thomson Surrey video
Re: Thomson Surrey
November 01, 2023 06:25AM
I just received an e-mail, and linked video, from Chris Sorenson who is "Down Under".

They serviced the Lemp Steering Check and the machine is now manueverable.

It is remarkable enough to see a working production automobile from 1899, let alone a prototype ... so the video was quite a treat.

The current issue seems to be that they are running low on steam traversing an incline. We have written testimony from one of the car's builders that it completed a rather lengthy cross country journey when it freshly built; given the roads of that day it seems reasonable to assume that the car shoudl be able to manage moderate hills. Of course, at this far remove, we are left largely with speculation. Steam cars generally struggled on inclines because the steam demand rose just as engine speed declined ... meaning that the fuel and water pumps were also being driven more slowly. Jim Crank told me that he encountered this issue with Doble, Stanley, and White steamers with the White being the best equipped to deal with it. He said that this was a matter of having fuel and water pumps capable of delivering about 200 percent capacity and also having a two-speed gearbox so that you could climb in low gear so as to maintain higher engine (and pump) speeds.

Having gone through the many GE patents with a fine-toothed comb, it's fair to say that the boiler control systems were lacking until their very last effort in the latter part of the next decade. In particular, they failed to add a thermostatic component to their boiler controls, apparently trusting that the fuel to water ratio be constant across all demands -- which certainly doesn't seem to be the case. So, who knows? Perhaps there is a mechanical issue to be dealt with ... or perhaps the boiler controls need a great degree of operator input when traversing slopes.

The video can be found at:

Thomson Surrey Halloween 2023




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2023 06:27AM by frustrated.
Re: Thomson Surrey
February 05, 2024 07:22AM
Just received a new video from Chris Sorenson. He's made a few modifications to the Steam Surrey pump system which seem to improve drivability up hills. Neat to see a prototype car that never went into production back on the road after more than 120 years!

Thomson Surrey, January 2024
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All files from this thread

File Name File Size   Posted by Date  
1900thomsonsurreywolfpenmuseum.jpg 109.7 KB open | download frustrated 08/14/2021 Read message
Thomson 25.9 KB open | download Chris Sorensen 06/10/2022 Read message