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Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build

Posted by Rick.H 
Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
April 28, 2021 07:45AM
Quote
SSsssteamer
Rick H. You have put a lot of thought into your projected steam car. One of the keys to the success of the early Stanley steam cars was their light weight. The early 1904 Stanleys weighed in at 770 pounds. By the time that they had the fastest muscle cars of that era, 1,600 pounds was the scale weight of the 1908 H5. Light weight is one of the keys to having a fast and nimble car. By 1915, their weight had exceeded 3.400 pounds and they had become slugs as compared to the IC cars of that time. Condensers were mandated by many municipalities, and the condensers were the main reason for their weight increase. As far as blending old and new designs to create your steam car special, blending designs is the easiest road to take rather than duplicating a historic vehicle. Unfortunately, the blended vehicle will not give the equal amount of return on your invested dollar as compared to duplicating a historic vehicle. If having a good return on your investment is not a criteria for building your steam car, then there are hardly any restraints to your blended designs. What has been accepted in updating the vintage reproduction vehicles are adding disc brakes and using modern metals. Modern bearings, modern insulation, updated burners and boilers have also been accepted in the vintage reproductions.. I wish you the best in your project. Keep at it and it will soon get done. Time is a wasting!

Hi Pat, hope all is well with you. I'm dedicating every Tuesday (evening) to build my replica of a 1908 Stanley H5. This will be a blended vehicle as you state. I will be developing and trying out new, modern steam technology. This is to satisfy my desire as an inventor. However, I hope to show up to backyard car shows, steam get togethers and have people identify this car as a 1908 Stanley. My intention is to give impressive rides to show off my capability as a designer, inventor and capability in understanding steam power. I'd like to run with you, along side in a Steam Car Rally. The only original part will be a 10 Hp Stanley dry engine that would be used on a 1908 Stanley EX. One of my top design inputs is to keep this car light. I have decided what new inventions will be incorporated into this car. They will come out as I show progress. As a side note and as an engineer, I have to be careful not to fall into analysis paralysis. This stops all progress.

To all, this project is to build a fun Gentleman Speedy Roadster. It will have a 10 Hp Stanley and incorporated into a shortened Ford model T frame. The frame is identified as one of the earlier, brass era, vintage that came with 30 inch wooden artillery wheels. The frame was 100 inches in wheel base length. I shortened it to 84 inches. The reason, original H5 has 33 inch wheels and a 20 Hp engine that was 3-5/8 X 5. My spec is 10 Hp (3 X 4), 30 inch wheels and 84 wheelbase. This will give the look of the original Stanley H5 as a close scale model. My modern updates will make it a real performer...I hope, we'll see.

Attached is a picture of an H5, the end game. Next picture is the frame now on saw horses in my workshop. As one can see, the shop is still in it's completion stages. I get the electric inspected tomorrow as a matter of fact. I will have a pretty complete machine shop with Lathe, Mill & welding capabilities.

The rear portion of the frame is where I shortened it by removing a precise amount to yield the 84 inch wheelbase. The frame was then overlapped, nested within itself and welded. The pieces that were removed were welded to the front portion to support the boiler. The boiler needs to fit within a 22 inch width.

Note that great thought and planning is going into this build. I have lots of drawings and calculations to come up with this design. If any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I probably haven't thought of everything. Part of my research includes combing Rolly's EX duplication and build (steamcar.net), Colburn Bensons H5 (now sold) and Jim Anderson's 1908 Stanley EX. I humbly admit that I have a lot to learn about the details...yes, the devil is in the detail.

Hope this interesting and inspirational,

Kind regards,
Rick


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
April 28, 2021 06:31PM
Rick H.. I have been on many steam car tours over the last 36 years and many of the steam car tours had modern, and also cross bred steam cars on them. Peter Barrett is one that had a good performing modern steam car. He attended several of our steam car tours with his VW based steam car.. Not all clubs allow modern steam cars on their tours. If you do your best to keep with the H-5 image, then blending into a vintage car tour won't be so much of a hassle. The wife and I have had the most fun steam car touring all by ourselves. We stop for water when we need it, we make adjustments when we need to, and we don't have to wait for anyone.


LCI
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
April 29, 2021 11:13PM
Rick, I don't want to come across as being an ass, but I put up a building in my yard when I was in Michigan, I used the same insulation I see you are using. I found out the hard way that putting the insulation in contact with the sheet metal siding causes condensation to form on the metal. I redone mine and put the insulation against the two by fours to leave an air gap between the insulation and the metal. No more condensation build up. Insulated my building in Tennessee the same way and it stays dry. Dan
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
April 30, 2021 02:05AM
Hi Dan, I appreciate offers of wisdom from practical experience. As a quick aside on the pole barn, I use this stuff known as 'Double Bubble' that is against the steel sheet metal. The double bubble has a shinny reflective surface, reflects IR and acts as a vapor barrier. Then the foam sheeting. Then another foam sheet over the girders. All joints are taped with the aluminum shinny tape, again, reflect IR. My electrician buddy stated that I'll be able to heat the place with a candle.

I hope this H-5 build will be state-of-the-art. The barn is also in that it will be heated with direct geothermal, hydroponic radiant floor and a rocket waste oil burner of my design. I'm big on infrared (IR) and firmly believe it is in our future. I hope that my article on IR comes out in the SACA Bulletin this coming issue. No doubt that IR or radiant heating transfers energy far more efficiently than convection.

Back to the H-5 build, IR is one of the planned items to be incorporated into this intended speedy machine. Sorry for the teaser, to early in the build to show the details. The burner conversion will be based on the method used and shown in the Bulletin article. The burner is designed and built. However, the blue will be converted to red. Note that I show pictures in this forum of this IR development.

Thank you so much for your offering and hope you enjoy the build,

Kind regards,
Rick


LCI
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
April 30, 2021 04:29PM
I'll be watching your progress. Looks very interesting. Glad you got a good plan for the insulation. I couldn't see the vapor barrier you have in there. Just had to stick my nose in your business . Dan
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
May 01, 2021 07:29AM
Dan, no problem, I appreciate folks with practical experience. Please enjoy!

To All,
I'm setting up for the split of my T rear end this coming Tuesday evening. I'll be bringing the rear end to the Barn and spraying PB Blaster. I'm toying with using a transmission fluid and acetone concoction...anybody's thoughts?

Attached is the model T as I bought it. It did come with steering wheel and column. Can you imagine a beautiful coffin nose on that baby.

Cheers, Rick


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
May 01, 2021 09:38AM
After you Sandblast it clean and prime it weight till you finish the car.
The banjo frame and chassis of the car will get the most abuse from road use. Find a good paint that you can also get in a spray can for touchup.

The yellow undercarriage of my Stanley is a John Deer tractor yellow that matched the yellow of an original Stanley hub after wet sanding by a computer matching machine. It also came in a spray can. I can wet sand a chip spot and touch up a spot.

Rolly
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
May 04, 2021 12:08PM
Hi Rolly, thanks for the advice. Also thanks for this fine work...

Rolly's Stanley EX

I looked at every picture and drawing. My build is really an EX with the look of an H-5.
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
May 05, 2021 12:02PM
Tuesday night Progress Report: one can see the comparison of a model T rear end to a Stanley EX. When I bought my 10 Hp Stanley engine from Robbie, it included this ~ 1906 EX rear axial.

The splitting of the T rear end wasn't so bad. The challenge now is to blend the 10 Hp Stanley to the T rear end and make it look cool like a copper cladded Stanley EX rear end.

My initial thought is to make the pumpkin support brackets like the Stanley and fit to the T diff. I'll need to keep the outer portion of the T axial to maintain the trans spring suspension arrangement. Admittingly I don't have the final plan in mind nor on paper. I'm confident I'll get there.

As a quick aside, does anybody have details of this gentleman who made two Vanderbilt Racers and used Jaguar rear ends?

Thanks,


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
May 05, 2021 12:41PM
This is a bronze casting for the gears on the EX rear end. A friend of mine now dead
made some of them. Gears available from Boston gear. Somewhere on my old hard drive I have the numbered gears. You need to pick the one that matched the engine gear. Looks like you need axel gears, they will have to match differential three gears.

The gears are Browning YSB10B15-40 for the stars and Browning YSB10B60-40 for the axles. I am not sure the 1 should be I or the 0 should be O, but this should get you close.

Rolly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2021 12:59PM by Rolly.


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
May 12, 2021 04:45AM
Progress report from last night. Figuring how to use the model T inner rear into the EX rear end. In deep thought on how to support spiders and driven gear. The model T inner workings fits within the EX rear end/axle. Still need a driven gear solution. confused smiley


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
June 04, 2021 04:55AM
I decided to go with a Boston Gear, and machine it. I have a cast iron Stanley carrier I purchased from Ron Rodgers.. I'm pretty sure the model T spiders will fit. Thanks to Rolly for providing a lead to an outfit in the UK. With the Pound Sterling conversion to USD, not so good at this time. I hope to get my mill set up soon and start the machining process. Also, get the gear on order...all for now.

Picture of Tony's Delora Buggy rear end. His is a model T conversion. Also, picture of the 10 Hp driving gear, currently disassembled. As a point of reference, my 20 Ton Press was able to push this apart.


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
July 21, 2021 06:52AM
Latest update, I received my driven gear from Boston Gear. It's a beast! Now time to set up and do some machining...

Note that my driving gear is pictured also on the 10 Hp Stanley crank shaft. Cranks removed. I measured the driving gear to be sure I ordered the correct gear to surround my rear cage (holds the spider gears).

Cheers,
Rick


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
July 24, 2021 05:54PM
I find it neat that it's a genuine Boston gear. Some of the auto magazines from around the year 1900 had Boston gear advertisements for differential gear sets that they were selling to manufacturers and home builders. Neat to see the company still contributing to the field way over a century later!
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
July 25, 2021 04:48AM
Babs Foundry Inc in Norton Mass made all Boston Gears bronze casting for the last 100 years that I know of.
Tony Borges for over 70 years and his son David for the last thirty years. I don’t know about the iron but I’ll bet it’s one of the iron Foundries in RI

Babs also make some of the smoothest cores I know of; and for other Foundries as well, when I cast my high-pressure pumps they made the cores for Cumberland Iron Foundry. I had supplied my core boxes to Cumberland and they went to Babe foundry because Babe did better work.

Not two far from you Rick.

Rolly
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
August 04, 2021 06:45AM
Rolly,
I have a cage casting from Ron Rodgers that potentially can hold my spider gears. If not, I may check out this place near me.

I just brought home this rotary table, bought from my company for scrap cost...imagine that! This will be used to hog out the web in the Diff Gear. It is a high precision rotary table.

Thanks,
Rick

PS, I would love to see you at the SACA meet my friend, Sept 17-19. Any chance I can twist your arm and have you come up? People are bringing some nice hardware: Tony, Jerry, Chuk and myself and more. Gonna be lots to see and talk about!


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
August 04, 2021 07:23AM
Nice table both horizontal and vertical.

How big in diameter is the table?

Rolly
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
August 04, 2021 11:42AM
10 inch, should carry the gear well.
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
October 10, 2023 06:57AM
This is an update to my H5 build.


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
October 10, 2023 07:09AM
Update continued ...

New used TIG welder to assemble the rear end. I passed my old scratch TIG to Brendan (my son in Denver CO).


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
October 11, 2023 09:27AM
I started the chassis layout to see where the radius rods will go. I included the positioning of a hot well that will be incorporated with the feed water heater. The system will be open to the atmosphere. The hot tank/feed water heater will provide some condensation, not the main purpose. The main reason is to heat the water in the hot well and feed this into the boiler. I witnessed a Stanley and drove it to see the effect of the hot tank on engine performance. It turns out that this heavier condensing car is faster than a lighter non-condensing car. This equates to better efficiency.

I soon will need the radius rods from the rear axle mounted. This is an important part of holding the rear axle in place. Note that this is a Model T frame, shortened to 84 inches (wheelbase) and keeping many of the rear end parts...case, axle housings and whatnot. The car with a body on it will look like a Gentleman's Speedy Roadster. The design is based on a Stanley EX, size and power; that uses the 10 HP Stanley Engine like mine. I just bought this engine at Hershey, my 2nd engine to complete this project (as pictured).

This is the same concept I've laid out for a team going for the land speed record for steam. After my experience with the hot tank/feed water concept, I decided to make it happen on my car build. I'll keep working out the details as I progress with my build. I'll solidify the concept with a working unit.


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
January 05, 2024 05:44AM
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
February 02, 2024 08:43AM
Latest update


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
February 05, 2024 08:39AM
More update...


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
March 12, 2024 07:32AM
Progress report...
I'm still working on my welding skills. Hence the left side leads to the right side of the photo. Good news is good welds and ready for painting and assembly.


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
March 18, 2024 12:54PM
Rick.H Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm dedicating every Tuesday (evening) to build my replica of a 1908 Stanley H5. This will be a blended vehicle
-------------------------------------------------------

Hey Rick, just wanted to throw a few words of encouragement your way, you are making some cool stuff!

I'm no steam expert so I can't offer anything constructive, but I do wish you the best, I hope I'll get a chance to get more involved in steam, soon. I haven't been to Berrien Springs in 3 or 4 years.

Cheers -

KB
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
March 20, 2024 08:38AM
Hey Buddy, thanks for all the encouragement. I'm very fortunate to have a heated workshop and most of my key machines up and running. I'm truly blessed. I do dedicate every day to working on my steam car (at least this Spring). Only when a substitute position comes up will I take a day off.

I hope to encourage you to start your dream steam project. For that matter, anyone reading this to take this advice to heart. When I stated that I would dedicate Tuesday nights to build, I committed to apply some time to the journey. Please keep in mind that the joy is in the journey. Yesterday I was working on my lathe turning/facing the clamp rings that I will fabricate into the engine clamps to the rear axle. This is a calming process and brings forth creativity. Hardest part of a long journey is the first step.

Unfortunately, I won't be going to the SACA Spring Meet for I'm going to a Steam Car tour in NH on the same date. I may bring my steam scooter there, not sure and or perhaps my steam car in its build stage. I've gotten to know many of the steam car owners, and they are very willing to let me ride along and just comb through their cars. I'll be keeping my eyes and ears open; I might learn some valuable information about steam cars.

In your design build process for your steam project, I have some advice (hope you don't mind). Using the engine clamps as an example, I designed the clamps to use schedule 80 3" black iron pipe nipples and use 1/2" schedule 40 black pipe to contain the 5/8" rod. One of my key machines is my TIG welder to fabricate them together after a little tour on the milling machine. Design for what you are capable to build. From engineering experience, no design is any good unless you build it and realize it.

Cheers, Rick
Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
April 07, 2024 09:00AM
Update on axle clamps.

I decided to braze components together after milling in slots where tubes fit in. They are spaced at 4" as best I could on my mill. It will clean up and look pretty good in the end. I'll use a slitting saw to separate the halves.


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
April 23, 2024 06:46AM
Finished my rear end and now building my 10 HP Stanley Engine. I'm using this build stand much like the Lykamobile builders use. You can see their version of build stand through Jim Popes postings. I threw in a couple of other pics.


Re: Gentleman Speedy Roadster Build
May 14, 2024 05:39AM
Engine build status, lots of loving care with chasing unique threads, reaming out slide fitting and making new parts along with making spacers so everything will run smoothly. The packing went in pretty well, with some struggle. Grease/graphite mix and paraffin wax are main building blocks with an oil/stabilizer mix to help lubricate everything.


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