Doble Boiler

Tip-of-the-hat to you...Don!

You are a go getter and like the design. It reminds me of a turbine engine.

Hey, wondering if you are coming to the Spring SACA Meet in Michigan? Love to see you there?

Kind regards,
Rick

I support Rick last meet that I attended he made great presentations.

The only problem is that your wife figures out what you spending money on

I think the meets make the whole development worth the visit...

Rick,
Yes, so I looked up "turbine engine burner" very interesting, similar to what I made for the boiler with the major exception that they all have an air jacket that surrounds the combustion chamber cooling the unit and sending hot air for combustion, sounds good to me. What do you think?
Where in Michigan is the event?
Don

Don-

I-too, used a design for a gas turbine combustion chamber when I built the burner for the Streamliner boiler. Very tricky to get adjusted just right, but when you do-it does a very good job!

Both of the Steam Meets are held at Tom Kimmel's shop in Berrien Springs, Michigan-a few miles north of Niles. I haven't attended the Spring Meet yet, but I'm planning to make it this spring. The Fall Meet is very well attended, and is a great opportunity to meet some very knowledgeable "steam fiends", as well as some spectacular vehicles!

Hope to see you there!

Chuk

Hi Don,
Yes turbine engine type burner is a good thing. The shell is where the compressed air collects and then flows through holes creating a pressure drop. Pressure drop is the key to holding a flame.

We can talk more at the Spring Meet.

Note that when Chuk talks, I listen. I have more ideas cooking in my head than ever after I listen to one of Chuk's presentations. A gentleman who is worth mentioning, Jay Carter, is one to remember regarding successful steam engine accomplishments. Chuk interfaced with him on many occasions. The idea to present here is the use of a 8 or 10 inch long, larger tube in the mono tube boiler path just before the inlet to the valve/piston. Reason is to provide for one volume of expansion...this was Jay's idea. I too would recommend this practice. This was shown on the Rotary Engine Chuk was evaluating for a Streamliner.

Attached is a teaser. I'm thinking of a presentation regarding steam engine valve cycle and relate it to boiler and back to the burner. Hope to pull something together in time to present at the Spring Meet. The plots attached are from a measured engine, Roger Ulsky's engine. I used excel to show a PV diagram in one of my earlier presentations. We measured my steam scooter also...plots did not come out so nice because we used a compressor to cycle my engine. This is what lead me to this presentation concept.

Cheers,
Rick



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2019 11:29AM by Rick.H.

Hi, I got the vaporizing combustion chamber on the boiler. I was unable to get the burner to light. Gas dribbling out. Blower blowing the fire out. I never got it hot enough to vaporize the gas.
Whatever, So I can run propane through a tee connecting the fuel vaporized line. That will make it so I can preheat the vaporizing coils with propane and switch to gasoline after it is hot.

Hi Don,
I like your progress...

Regarding that statement "Gas dribbling out." Ron, Tony and myself have built burners that allow gasoline to dribble out. This phenomenon is inevitable when warming up your burner. I can post some pictures when I get home tonight and perhaps Ron is listening and can beat me to it. Tony was the originator of the design concept and Ron and myself followed suit.

Another suggestion from Tony would be to warm up on propane and switch to gasoline after you have temperature in the vaporizing coils.

One notable fact with propane is that it can run through your vaporizer coil without concern. Chuk has done this successfully.

Hope this helps,
Rick

PS...hope to see you at the Spring Meet??

I have the propane line hooked up to the vaporizer line with a tee and a valve for control.
Had to move the spark plug, now I have 3.
I have to set up my sparker a friend made for me.
Don

The burner as promised...the mixing tubes go upward into the area inside the branch tubes. The geometry is such that the liquid gasoline will drain out during the initial firing sequence. This is short lived on this design. She burns hot in a hurry.

Hope this helps,

Risk, you test your burner inside your shop all the time?
Don

X



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2020 05:48AM by IronChief.

On my next solid fuel burner I am going to add a vaporizing burner using kerosene, Most likely for that in going to add a windshield washer pump controlled by a speed controller. I haven't figured out the size for nozzle yet and how many loops for the tubing. I always run my burner in the shop and can control things easily since the corn burner is a solid fuel burner. This will just be a intermittent boost and not run all the time.

Don, I test my burner with propane in my garage and gasoline outside with a 10 foot safe distance between the pressure tank and burner. At least 50 ft from the house/garage.

My garage is well ventilated. I also fry my turkeys on propane in my garage...haven't lost a garage yet

Well, things arn`t going any better. The propane would not light with the spark plug. So I stuck a propane torch in and there go the eyebrows. So don`t look in. After more adjusting I blowed the end of the boiler off I finely got it burning by igniting the gas as it came out the inlet and blowing it back in the right direction with the blower where it continued to burn.
I was a little bummed out.
Don

Don-

Don't give up! You're just getting into the good stuff now....ya gotta keep thinking about how many problems you've eliminated-until they're all gone and you have perfection!!

That's the way you get to where you want to be!

All the best-

Chuk

Don, I'm so proud of you that you toasted your eyebrows!

Just a thought, your spark plug might be getting too much propane, making the mixture too rich to start. That would explain why it lit up so spectacularly with a torch.

Hi Don,
Hope you don't mind me kidding about the eyebrow thing...I think its great to try and build stuff. I have singed my hairs more than once. However, I get smarter each time.

All kidding aside, an important observation regarding burning and the flame inside a burner. As you have seen, I have tried out my burner design in atmosphere and inside the boiler frame along with running on propane and vaporized gasoline. Hoping you've heard of my steam scooter and have experienced the same running on propane (atmosphere and in frame). However, the difference comes when you enclose the burner and impinge on coils and or fire-tubes. If you go with a gravity type burner like a wick style or even a Primus type burner, the flame is really lazy when you enclose it within the burner container. The reason for going with what I call a pressure burner is to push the hot gasses through to the exhaust.

Pertaining to your burner/boiler, please go visit this link. Hayabusa Steam Powered
Your system reminds me allot of the attached link system. It appears to be the same size. One difference I think I'm observing is that the Hayabusa burner blower is much bigger than yours. Your tube nest (again I like that terminology) is similar to the Hayabusa. It takes allot of energy to push through the tube nest for an effective burner. The trick is to overcome the back-pressure.

Note that Tom Kimmel designed and built this boiler. One steam meet I just starred at it running where it shot steam an easy 20 ft in the air with strong and powerful noise. Tom will be at the Spring Meet, hope you come and meet him to discuss your boiler? Also, there are lots of examples to look at and discuss while pointing to the features.

Hope this helps,
Rick

Rick, This isin`t my first eyebrow singe I have been doing steam and other nasties involving combustion for 50 years.There is always something new that needs to be learned.
Don

Rick,
The blower is a leaf blower that puts out a lot of air. I have a throttle plate and a speed controller to regulate intake air flow to the boiler. After heating adjusting mixture is easy, give it some gas than slowly increase air flow till the fire goes out, than slowly decrease air flow till the mixture ignites. This is the lean side of mixture, good for making clean heat. I have never come close to not having enough air and have %100 adjustment.
Don

Don, sounds good!

repeating what Chuk said, "Don-

Don't give up! You're just getting into the good stuff now....ya gotta keep thinking about how many problems you've eliminated-until they're all gone and you have perfection!!

That's the way you get to where you want to be!

All the best-

Chuk"

Kind regards,
Rick

Hi, I made this attachment to better light the burner.
I also have a question about where to get high pressure steam valves and blow off valves.
Best to all, Don

A blow off valve. Haven't tested it yet.
Don

Hi Don,

I wish you the best of luck; hope the blow-off valve does the job.

One of the problems I've been fighting for 40 years or so is that many necessary parts for steam cars, capable of 500-1000+ psi steam pressure AND sized right for automobile-sized steam power systems, are not commercially available. But info on how to design & build these components is out there.

My thanks go out to the many experienced steam car guys here who have provided crucial "info bits" on that topic...

I have been away from here for a while because of a sudden urge to finish the design/blueprinting of the control box for my vaporizing-burner "Easy-Clean" system. That's the thing that uses high-pressure boiler steam to blow all the carbon out of a vaporizing burner with a 4-second pull of an operating handle, instead of the old antique-steam-car way of spending up to 30 minutes taking apart and cleaning out the vaporizer, branch tubes, jets, cables, screens, etc.. The control box was a crazy seemingly-endless nightmare to design, but it looks "buildable and workable" now. A handful of design/blueprinting jobs remain, then I'll have a fast/easy-cleaning vaporizing burner design. Run it on any crummy water/additive-loaded gas-station gasoline, and vaporizer-clogging problems gone. Just pull the handle at each fuel-refill, and no problemo. In future models it could be fully-automated.

Getting very close now to "design finished/build time".

Peter

Hi Don,
I'm interested in this type of blow-off device. I have yet to make one myself.

What diameter did you use? I'm guessing 1/2"...looks like 1/2" scheduled 40 pipe as the body containing the spring.

Like to know how it works when you try it?

Thanks,
Rick

Don,

Amazon sells stainless steel ball valves rated for 1000 psi and 450 deg. They are full ported, cost about $15 and come in different NPT sizes. Just do a search in Amazon’s website for “stainless steel ball valves” and they should come right up. They have stainless steel check valves as well, also rated at 1000 psi and at about the same price.

Jamison

Peter,
You had mentioned, how to design & build these components for a blowoff valve is out there. I looked on the internet and found nothing useful.
Can you find something for me?
Best, Don

Hi,
I was having trouble getting my blowoff valve to seal. I have been testing it with water pressure and after much re-machining of every part it seams to seal well. The spring in it now will max out at 400 PSI. I have another spring on the way, I want to get it up to 800 PSI.
Best, Don

Hi Don,

Glad to hear that you got up to good sealing at 400 psi with your blowoff. I was going to say, ask the friendly/helpful Stanley guys, with their 500-600 psi boilers and blowoff valves that hold fine. But it looks like you worked it out OK on your own. Cool. There is lots of info out there which search engines cannot find. Generally that info can be found with "people person skills", but it is also locatable with independent experimenting and other methods. Sorry about delayed reply; I have been focused/obsessed on design/blueprinting and have missed many posts here. With proper design, blow-off valves should seal perfectly at 800 psi or higher...

Who was it that referred to an affordable CAD program

Just doing some research



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2019 07:05PM by Jeremy Holmes.

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