Steam turbine driven turbojet
Posted by novice
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Re: Steam turbine driven turbojet March 25, 2021 06:55AM |
Hi Novice
OK...we explored MVR. I'm not convinced that it is the best way to go.
I'm going to stay with a principle that I've been using all along in my steam engine design. Some data from the steam table:
PSI , Deg F, 32 - Boil, Vaporization, Total BTU
697, 505, 494, 707, 1,201
I picked this pressure point as a good steam engine with these values. I quick reminder that "32 - Boil" is the amount of BTU to bring water from 32 Deg F to 212 Deg F, start of boiling. Then the it takes 707 BTU to turn the water into steam, a wet steam. The total adds the two for the amount of BTU in the steam and as it might be introduced to an expander.
Is it worth it to take away some of the 707 BTU of energy converted into mechanical along with a significant amount of inefficiency. Reliability isn't that stellar also.
Armed with this information, I believe, it is more useful to have Feedwater Heating. Use this to the greatest extent and then consider air - steam condenser. In addition, I would add another element, a mechanical device to improve conductive hot gas flow on the steam generation side. This mechanical device would be after the feedwater heater and before the air condenser. An example of this device would be a Doble Pelton Wheel.
I attached one guys Stanley diagram where his thinking is along my lines.
Kind regards,
Rick
OK...we explored MVR. I'm not convinced that it is the best way to go.
I'm going to stay with a principle that I've been using all along in my steam engine design. Some data from the steam table:
PSI , Deg F, 32 - Boil, Vaporization, Total BTU
697, 505, 494, 707, 1,201
I picked this pressure point as a good steam engine with these values. I quick reminder that "32 - Boil" is the amount of BTU to bring water from 32 Deg F to 212 Deg F, start of boiling. Then the it takes 707 BTU to turn the water into steam, a wet steam. The total adds the two for the amount of BTU in the steam and as it might be introduced to an expander.
Is it worth it to take away some of the 707 BTU of energy converted into mechanical along with a significant amount of inefficiency. Reliability isn't that stellar also.
Armed with this information, I believe, it is more useful to have Feedwater Heating. Use this to the greatest extent and then consider air - steam condenser. In addition, I would add another element, a mechanical device to improve conductive hot gas flow on the steam generation side. This mechanical device would be after the feedwater heater and before the air condenser. An example of this device would be a Doble Pelton Wheel.
I attached one guys Stanley diagram where his thinking is along my lines.
Kind regards,
Rick
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Re: Steam turbine driven turbojet April 07, 2021 12:38PM |
This is Great! This will be the future of aircraft Turbo Fan Engines...no doubt in my mind.
Back up a little bit, I recall that the WWII bombers had water injection applied for increase power for take-off. This concept was well known and proven. However, they didn't care about conserving the water. A bombers mission is to take off, survive, dump bombs and make it back to land. Any water not used during take-off was dumped to improve performance. Also, they didn't want frozen water pipes at altitude. More importantly, they didn't need to save the water, condense it. I think the true purpose was to advance the spark so much and then add water injection to prevent detonation.
It was just recently that I came up with my recommendation mentioned above.
As it turns out, this German company had this concept in the works at least 4 years ago. By-the-way, I came up with this idea totally independently. OK, don't get cocky, I still have a lot to learn.
Attached is the concept where I would like to test my understanding. The concept is very sound in my opinion. Where it is noted as "Superheated Steam" I would recommend it to be superheated water. Let the water go instantly to steam in the combustion chamber. There is another reason for mentioning this I'll state at the end. I get this concept from the steam racing hydrofoil boats in England. Same source, instead of "Steam Generator", call it a flash boiler. Important to note that water will superheat when released in a pressure drop situation that this provides. This is added energy that goes to the turbine section.
From the steam locomotive history, there are two (2) types of steam condensers. One (1) is the closed system and the other is an open to atmosphere. When I mention to use Feedwater Heating above, I'm talking about a closed condenser. Then the open to atmosphere would follow after some mechanical device. Note that the open condenser depicted is way to small. Surface area really needs to be over most of the wing and empennage. This would be the limiting factor to the success of this system. However, they are off to a good start.
In the attached, between numbers 6 & 7 would be the closed condenser or feedwater heater as I would call it. Water Recovery would be the open condenser. In the first attached YouTube video Novice attached, it shows a secondary turbine. This mechanical device provides the airflow across the open condenser (water recovery). This is exactly what Dave Nerrgard did with his Stanley and use of a Wort's blower. Again, his intent and WET Turbine are the same, to conserve water.
Before I tie this post up with reasoning from above, I'd like to mention the works of Stanley Myer. This is the guy who supposedly ran a car on water. Not sure what happened to the guy. I do believe he had some valid concepts without the technical knowledge for what was happening. Since then, some interesting discoveries happened with power generation plants and developments in HTE and HPE. Still a long ways to go to make these concepts a reality.
Here is the reason to keep the superheated water instead of steam introduced to the combustor. This would be the location to introduce High Temperature Electrolysis (HTE). This makes the most sense by use of the Gibbs Free Energy Equation. Yes, this would make it a hydrogen burning turbo fan engine. Last thing that clinches this concept is that hydrogen burns with three (3) times the heat energy than gasoline. As you let the water flash to steam, provides the best chance to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. Who knows, maybe I'll get credit for this concept as a first.
Back up a little bit, I recall that the WWII bombers had water injection applied for increase power for take-off. This concept was well known and proven. However, they didn't care about conserving the water. A bombers mission is to take off, survive, dump bombs and make it back to land. Any water not used during take-off was dumped to improve performance. Also, they didn't want frozen water pipes at altitude. More importantly, they didn't need to save the water, condense it. I think the true purpose was to advance the spark so much and then add water injection to prevent detonation.
It was just recently that I came up with my recommendation mentioned above.
Quote
Rick.H
Armed with this information, I believe, it is more useful to have Feedwater Heating. Use this to the greatest extent and then consider air - steam condenser. In addition, I would add another element, a mechanical device to improve conductive hot gas flow on the steam generation side. This mechanical device would be after the feedwater heater and before the air condenser. An example of this device would be a Doble Pelton Wheel.
As it turns out, this German company had this concept in the works at least 4 years ago. By-the-way, I came up with this idea totally independently. OK, don't get cocky, I still have a lot to learn.
Attached is the concept where I would like to test my understanding. The concept is very sound in my opinion. Where it is noted as "Superheated Steam" I would recommend it to be superheated water. Let the water go instantly to steam in the combustion chamber. There is another reason for mentioning this I'll state at the end. I get this concept from the steam racing hydrofoil boats in England. Same source, instead of "Steam Generator", call it a flash boiler. Important to note that water will superheat when released in a pressure drop situation that this provides. This is added energy that goes to the turbine section.
From the steam locomotive history, there are two (2) types of steam condensers. One (1) is the closed system and the other is an open to atmosphere. When I mention to use Feedwater Heating above, I'm talking about a closed condenser. Then the open to atmosphere would follow after some mechanical device. Note that the open condenser depicted is way to small. Surface area really needs to be over most of the wing and empennage. This would be the limiting factor to the success of this system. However, they are off to a good start.
In the attached, between numbers 6 & 7 would be the closed condenser or feedwater heater as I would call it. Water Recovery would be the open condenser. In the first attached YouTube video Novice attached, it shows a secondary turbine. This mechanical device provides the airflow across the open condenser (water recovery). This is exactly what Dave Nerrgard did with his Stanley and use of a Wort's blower. Again, his intent and WET Turbine are the same, to conserve water.
Before I tie this post up with reasoning from above, I'd like to mention the works of Stanley Myer. This is the guy who supposedly ran a car on water. Not sure what happened to the guy. I do believe he had some valid concepts without the technical knowledge for what was happening. Since then, some interesting discoveries happened with power generation plants and developments in HTE and HPE. Still a long ways to go to make these concepts a reality.
Here is the reason to keep the superheated water instead of steam introduced to the combustor. This would be the location to introduce High Temperature Electrolysis (HTE). This makes the most sense by use of the Gibbs Free Energy Equation. Yes, this would make it a hydrogen burning turbo fan engine. Last thing that clinches this concept is that hydrogen burns with three (3) times the heat energy than gasoline. As you let the water flash to steam, provides the best chance to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. Who knows, maybe I'll get credit for this concept as a first.
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