new water pump piston

Driving my car to a car show here in florida, somehow the piston fell out one of my water pump. Upon examining it I found that the linkage broke which let the piston come out. Since I'm a snowbird I don't have my machine shop at hand, I looked on line for a water pump, but that was no good. Then I gave Rolly a call, he lives about 1/2 hour from me. His replay was, come on over, Spent about a day making a new piston, I removed the other piston to use as a template here is the result after about 8 hours,
Rolly thanks so much for helping me get back on the road I couldn't have done it without you.

Hi Jim and Rolly,

I just made the same parts for a Mason model 70? the smaller Mason engine. That is a common issue with those little engines, I've yet to find an old engine with that arm intact. I think what happened to them is the pump froze in the winter weather and when the car moved it broke the arm. The arm in the pic has a lug on the back end just to hold it for machining then it was removed.

-Ron

I lightened your last image.

the mason engine is the model c which is the new and improved mason. I had the early one which was built much lighter with brass bushings, the model c is all ball bearings. and is built much heavier. but only had one water pump, it had two mounting for two pumps so I made another pump. the engine uses a lot of steam so the need for two pumps, I will be building a super heater this spring to reduce water use.

Hi Jim,

As I understand it, the other pump mounting on Mason model C was for an oil pump. One water pump should take care of the feedwater requirements. Our cars are very similar in engine size and running one 9/16" bore pump, I only run the pump about 40% of the time. I'd be looking at check valves etc that don't seal off well. If you're still at about one gallon of water per mile, even running two feedpumps, something is awry with the pumps or valves.

What has always cured my feedwater issues is the installation of an Apollo softseat check valve right at the economizer entry, about 40 bucks on McMaster-Carr.

-Ron

Ron yes your correct about the pumps ,1 should be water and the other could be oil or air for the fuel. Im use two pumps for water. The steam oil that i'm using is a displacement type lubricator. I install a new stainless steel check valves good for 1000 psi so the water use should be lower. here are the two engines the first is the mason with brass bushings (1899) and the other os the new model c engine.(1901)
once I install a super heater the water use should be less.

Hi Jim,
Nice of you to recognize Rolly for his machine expertise. Looks like nice workmanship.

I was reviewing your engine pictures and noticed the check valves on the pump seam to be aftermarket...am I correct? Also It appears one is vertical and the other horizontal.

What I've noticed with these check valves is that when mounted vertical, they seem to perform over time reliably. When on the side, they seem to develop a not so reliable checking function. Just a thought and hope it helps. What I'm suggesting is a simple plumbing change to make both check valves vertical in position.

If I misunderstood, I may not have seen it correctly.

Kind regards,
Rick

Rick,
the engine with 2 pumps is the one that's in the car now and the pump on the right is the one I made, the check valves are new. not original. the one check is mounted horz. because there was no room to mount it any other way. There is a lot of copper tubing in the area of the pumps

Hi Jim,
There isn't any rule where the check valve needs to be near the pump. You can put in a flare fitting, takes up less room, and run the copper tubing to another vertical, check valve location on the car.

Again, hope it helps reduce the water supply problem and good luck.

Kind regards,
Rick

Rick, that is true as water will not compress, however encounter an airbound pump which can happen easily and the greater the volume between the checks, the more troublesome it's going to be to discharge the air from the pump. I think you may be confusing those Watts type springchecks with swingchecks that need to be horizontal or discharge up to work reliably. As I understand it, a spring check can be mounted in any attitude and work reliably.

One good consideration when locating a feedpump is make it the lowest component in the feedwater circuit, that way, air naturally moves away from the pump. I have a steampump mounted up high on the hull in the tugboat, looks great, but it's a bastage to get started sometimes, had to put an air bleeder on the discharge and it's needed everytime the pump is started for the day, any air in the feedwater will collect at the highest point.

On the Locomobile, the feedwater heater in the muffler coils up and back down again, it collects air and acts as a shock arrestor for the feedwater piston pump. Killed two birds with one stone so to speak.

-Ron

Ron, yes a spring type check can be mounted at any orientation. Yes its supposed to work reliably. However, you recommend adding an additional check, Apollo Softseat Check prior to the economizer. I guess whatever is needed to get it working. Again, I wish all the best of luck with Jim's machine.

You might be on to something regarding a shock arrestor. Perhaps when designing the water supply system, incorporate a hammer type of device like one you might use in a house to prevent the pipes from making noises. Have to think about that a little more.

Another thing is that Stanley moved the pump away from the engine in models after the Locomobile re-purchase. I'm thinking they did this to help prevent issues with the pump mount on the engine. It would be subject to the vibration directly transferred from the source. Also, I'm thinking that the pump stroke was increased (I could be corrected). A longer pump stroke would work better with check valve and their inherent inefficiency with the closing of the checking mechanism albeit a ball or poppet. I sort of question the pump design on the early engines with what I would consider a short stroke. It does work though.

Rick

Don't forget that you can use flexible lines for feed water since there's no heat. You can probably use the bypass valve for clearing air bubbles. My boiler circulation pump uses an industrial air cylinder with a long line from it to the check valves. This keeps the heat away from it, and since the differential pressure is small, it doesn't airlock and it doesn't need high pressure check valves. (they have to withstand the internal pressure and temperature, but the differential pressure is low, so you don't need super strong springs.

The feedwater piping should be able to withstand boiler temperature. There should always be a check valve right at the boiler feedwater inlet and per the ASME code, an isolation valve as well. If the check valve at the boiler fails to seat, it will shove boiler water back to the bypass and depending how it's plumbed all the way back to the feedwater tank.

-Ron

Absolutely on check valves being able to fail. We had a check valve on the USS Eisenhower momentarily stick open ... it was some seldom used line to vent excess steam overboard. The steam condensed and the stuck check valve let a slug of sea water get into our feed water supplies. Salinity alarms went crazy and it took a while to clear the system. And that was on a vessel with nuclear grade components.

The ASME code requires two checks and a valve at the boiler the national board does not require them to be WSP but a lot of the states do. But most states boiler laws do not cover anything other than stationary steam plants. If you have liability insurance then they will require inspection.
Checks should work in any position, if they didn’t our air craft and missiles would be in big trouble. Although I have to admit some of the cheap hardware store stuff sucks.
Rolly

yep that's when I knew I had a problem. I looked inside the fill of the water tank and could hear water boiling inside the tank. knew at that time the check valve was leaking

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