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Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile

Posted by sebasgo 
Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile
November 05, 2015 04:01PM
Hello everyone, this is my start in the world of steam, the truth just saw a locomobile fall in love with this car, my idea is to build a replica from scratch.

I would like to achieve something collaborative, if all bring something perhaps at one time might have a set of plans for everyone.

I am an engineer draftsman in Solidworks.


I got some pictures on the internet, but I'm looking for:

Drawings, plans, blueprints of any part of locomobile.
If anyone can guide me or sell a set of plans would be grateful.



Cheers
Sebastian
Re: Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile
November 05, 2015 06:16PM
The steam car club of Great Britain has scaled drawings on their website for an 1899, there are a few errors, but they are pretty close. Having been down this path, it's an enjoyable project, but involves a lot of research.

-Ron
Re: Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile
November 05, 2015 07:32PM
Hello Sebastian,

Every few years someone wants to build a Locomobile (me too) from drawings but unfortunately few have documented the Locomobile and even less have shared the information. Information is VERY hard to come by. There are Locomobiles around but unless you have access to one, coming up with your own information is most difficult. Should you want to get started, engines show up every few months on ebay. Mr. Hibler did some body drawings which should be available in the literature for sale in this Steam Club, also get the swivel joint drawing and the Mobile frame and I think body drawings would also be a help. Get a copy of the Geneology of the Locomobile book by Don Ball. I know it's available through the Stanley Museum or there is a copy for sale right now on ebay. You can look for IronChief's Locomobile build on the internet. The information shows up on different sites so you have to look around for it. He made an effort to make it look and feel right and it is very professionallhy made.

I would be most pleased to find out how your project comes out.

Oldnrusty1
Re: Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile
November 06, 2015 05:52AM
It depends on what replica you want to build. a true locomobile or a modern likamobile. The original used a wood body that was bolted to a steel running gear. The modern one (Likamobile ) uses a steel body frame with wood panels attached, and is bolted to the running gear. This is the type that I have. There are advantages in doing it this way if you are not looking to be exact. you would be using parts that are easy to get. and it would look almost exact to most people. But a true car owner would know. When I take mine to shows 99.9% don't know. But then again a lot of parts are original.


Re: Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile
November 06, 2015 11:22AM
Yes, the notes from the SACA store, especially the Hibler notes are very useful.

As jjtjr points out above, one needs to decide how exacting their reproduction is going to be. The closer it is to an original, the curve of difficulty goes up exponentially.

The problem is, nothing is really etched in stone and trying find an original to copy is very difficult and may even be impossible. The claimed "most original" of these cars is at the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn Michigan - even it isn't original. At some point in time someone hacked a larger fuel tank in and then re fabricated the whole brake system. And then made some buggy steps up that did not follow the original design. Then again, maybe it came from the factory like that?? Some Locomobile pics I've found don't follow any of the listed models of that time. All the mechanicals and certain features do though.

There really is no one clear design to follow, even in 1899 up until early December there was only one design offering (Style 1 Designed by the Stanley's) and it changed to a wider body and wider wheel tread Style 2(wheel stance) prior to the 1900 models, which was measured from center of tire to center of tire, the latter was consistent throughout subsequent years of production. Through most of 1899 the wheel tread was 51" and then it went to 54". Also the body width increased at the same time, going from a base width of 25-1/2" to a base width of 28-1/2. This also remained somewhat constant through subsequent years for the Style 2 and 3. The chassis did not change much going forward other than to alleviate some issues they had with the rear axle (bolt on retrofit braces and then cast in bracing) and larger tubing to accommodate the heavier bodies like the Locosurry four-seater. There were several models each year 1900 - end of production, even a single seat racer and a motorcycle. Examining pictures or surviving examples really muddys the waters. The open style diffferential was supposedly dropped in 1901 and rear drum brakes were added, I've only found one picture of one (in the UK)with rear drum brakes. Then the several later model cars with the open differential. The other differential types were the large and small enclosed spur gear type. I think a mistake one makes in the research is lending too much credence to the notion that when they made a change, it was permanent and mandatory for production models. I really think they advertised changes, but did whatever to get vehicles built.

In one's search they are going to run across very many "1899 Locomobiles" with center steering (1900 and up Locomobile had side tiller steering). Many of these aren't Locomobiles, rather Mobiles built by Walker. Barber and Walker purchased the rights from the Stanley's to build these cars under the Locomobile name and their partnership quickly died. Barber continued on with the Locomobile name and made changes frequently and Walker felt the car was fine like it was and just kept building and selling the same 1899 model for years under the Mobile name. Hence the confusion and the reason for their split.

Another problem in the research is the many photographs floating around the web labeled Locomobile are not Locomobiles at all. The fact is there were several competing car companies that were building an almost exact copy. Not sure if they disregarded the design infringement or some royalty was paid to Locomobile as they did in fact own the original Stanley design. All of these folks were frequenters of the patent office trying to protect their work. It was all for naught as the Stanley's wound up buying the rights back around 1904 for a fraction of what they sold them for in 1899. By that time, and utilizing the steam technology of that era, the gig was pretty much up for a production steam car and was continued on by very few after this point, White, Stanley, Brooks etc which dropped off one by one as the I/C offerings like the model T Ford took over the market.

Not trying to deter any one from building a replica, but rather shed some light on what one is up against when trying to access information for an "exact replica" build. I researched for a few years and like scraping the paint off an old garage, at some point you have to stop scraping and start painting smiling smiley

For my build I collected about 300 pictures from the web, sorted out those that did not pertain, took all the features I liked from the 1901 era and incorporated them in to one car. As Oldandrusty points out, trying to get information from owners of the originals is difficult, and I understand, these folks have paid a lot of money for these cars and are not too cooperative with someone looking to copy it. Thankfully Mr Hibler took the time to make some detailed drawings of the body of a 1900 Style 2.

Since I've been through this my intent is to make some of the castings available to those who would like to build a replica. I have a web domain already, but the site is not built yet. I have patterns for all the chassis parts, steering etc. I will try to get these parts listed over the winter.

[www.locomobileparts.com]

I tried to get Locomobile.com, but the guy wants 5 grand for it, he can keep it smiling smiley

Here is the latest on my build. I found a picture on the web of a step that I liked so I copied it to the best of my ability.

-Ron



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2015 05:57PM by IronChief.


Re: Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile
November 06, 2015 01:03PM
Very nice work Ron.
Rolly
Re: Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile
November 08, 2015 07:23PM
Hello, thank you very much to all for the help.

My idea is to make a replica of the closest possible, do not understand what is the justification for putting on the metal body structure likamobile Wood, could perform well in wood, which was not the criterion there.

Send a mail SACA STORE to buy the publications that showed me.

Ron will be your customer with accessories !!

And to start the project I want to verify that measures are well sketch?





Thank you very much to all and any information is welcome.
Sebastian
Re: Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile
November 09, 2015 08:18AM
Sebastian,

Some of the early wood body cars had a steel subframe. The Conrad made in Buffalo, NY had a full steel frame underneath the wood body, and was one of their selling features, which was a lot better than sole wood construction. Many of these wood bodies broke down with the rough roads, moisture-rot and freezing temperatures. I've surmised that the purpose of the decorative raised panels and louvers on the body sides and back were to prevent the large thin flat wood from cracking/splitting, there was no plywood at that time. The adhesives, joining techniques and finishing systems were far inferior to what we have today. The long body of the Locosurrey was plagued with this issue.

I snuck a steel subframe in my build - down each lower body rail and then steel cross-members to support the boiler and mount the engine on. The original had wood cross-members and the burner in close proximity.

A little insight on building an exact replica:

The thrust of my project has been "make it look original, but make it drivable". The reality is these weren't very reliable cars in their original form, prompting Rudyard Kipling, a prolific author of the day to label them the "nickel plated farce". Armed with that bit of trivia, I decided not to build an exact replica in regards to the mechanical systems. Reasoning I opted for an Ofelft boiler and burner (which many of these cars were retrofitted with right away), superheater, sealed ball bearings throughout the whole chassis, replaced the troublesome engine lower end "bicycle' bearings with sealed ball bearings (If Locomobile or Mason (Whitney) would have had them, they would have used them too), extended the body two inches longer to accommodate a larger water tank (the 19" diameter boiler results in lost area for water storage) etc. The very early Locos just had brass bushings in the front wheels. The original wheels and tires were practically unusable. The tires worked themselves off the rims frequently. They were not clincher style rims, rather a crescent shape. Locomobile allegedly drove one from New York city to Buffalo, about 500 miles.

The spring sketches from SCCGB.. All of those dimensions are more than likely accurate. The 1-3/8" inch wide spring stock is no longer available (so far). I talked to two different spring shops and they both said they could make them, but it would be very expensive - essentially milling and radiusing wider stock to that width. That leaves two choices of the current buggy offerings from the coach parts shops on-line, 1-1/4" or 1-1/2". Most people use the 1-1/2". That is what I used, then I made the bolsters on the ends. Finding original springs is very unlikely.

-Ron



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2015 06:13PM by IronChief.
Re: Drawings, plans, blueprints locomobile
November 11, 2015 09:52PM
I purchased my springs from a Amish buggy shop in Lancaster , pa it about 1 1/2 hr drive. I also purchased a buggy seat from them which is a close match.
The advantage in going there is they still built buggies the same way as 100 years ago. I had a look at a original Locomobile the body was all wood which also supported the boiler and the springs were just screw the the body, it's no wonder they fell apart in a short time. The best in building your own since it's not original is you can make improvements so it will be reliable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2015 09:55PM by jjtjr.
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