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Posted by kdc2 
March 26, 2015 02:14PM
Here is a question for the group, hope there is a consensus. Keeping in mind:
  1. In general, counterflow exchangers are more efficient than parallel flow.
  2. This expander will be highly superheated.
  3. Polymer rings may like cooler surface if no condensation (probably love condensation, but we can't have that).
So how would you plumb it? Thermally bond to cylinder with the coolest input or isolated with output nearest the cylinder. I think it will be superheated enough to avoid condensation the first way. Any opinions?

Thank you,

Re: Economizer
March 26, 2015 05:06PM
Nice 3-D drawing.
I would hope you would have used up most of the heat in the expansion. The Economizer is normal located in the exhaust section of the boiler/generator where the temperature is around 500F
If you have this much heat coming of the exhaust you’re not doing well with expansion.
My opinion.
Some of the one’s I have built.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2015 05:13PM by Rolly.

Re: Economizer
March 26, 2015 09:50PM
Thanks for the input Rolly. Best case is it becomes a pre-condenser, which is ok too. The provisions are there, cyclone used something simular and it made sense to me to put it there. I would like to optimize its function in the way it is plumbed and fixed. -Keith
Re: Economizer
March 27, 2015 01:40AM

Here is what I would do:

The layer closest to the cylinder is bonded to the cylinder. This layer is kept a small distance away from the unaflow exhaust ports and then insulated. Water from the Lamont tank is circulated through these keeping the cylinder at about 550 deg F. This both heats the cylinder toward the exhaust end and picks up heat from the head ends. It is a small form of re-generation.

The rest of the coils would serve as a feed water heater where water from the condenser is circulated through on it's way from the feed water pump then on to the economizer. As Rolly pointed out the expansion efficiency comes into play here as to how much of a temperature difference there is between the condensate and the exhaust steam. It should take all of the super heat out of the exhaust steam though and bring it's temperature down to saturated.


Bill G.

P.S. Cyclone doesn't own that idea. I thought of it long enough ago and I am sure others before me did also. I thought of using the Lamont tank water though. First or not, I've no way of knowing. It's free as far as I can tell.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2015 01:48AM by Bill Gatlin.
Re: Economizer
March 27, 2015 09:26AM
The cylinder should be well insulated, with early cutoff you should get at least 24-26 expansions and exhaust temperature should get down to 250-275F, any higher and you will need a very large condenser.
You want a large unrestricted exhaust manifold. Maximum port length, Look at the steam tables for expanded volume.
Re: Economizer
March 27, 2015 11:42AM
If you carefully research the Cyclone basic patents you will find all of them are based on older ones, some dating back a hundred years. Application patents are the easiest to circumvent , change one thing and get your own patent.
There are two ways one has a patent attorney file, having the company attorney file for several of mine.. One is he researches for prior art and then files, the second you tell him to file on exactly what you give him, so he doesn't research for prior art. You gamble your idea is new, with steam engines the field is littered and if you go back far enough, almost everything was someones old idea.
Remember, steal from one it is theft, steal from many it is research.
Re: Economizer
March 28, 2015 04:59AM
Hi Rolly,

That is my exact target, 250-275 exit. I will keep the coils not too dense, but with 170 deg into the reclaimer, maybe even shed a little heat with an additional exchanger, I hope to cool the exaust a notch to take some load off the condenser, and of coarse feed the boiler whatever heat that can be gained. There is about 30 expansions over induced steam, not including the residual compressed steam and clearance volume. If there is any condensation in the expander the 30 expansions goes out the window. Fighting superheat and component survivability at the moment. Challenging.

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All files from this thread

File Name File Size   Posted by Date  
economizer.png 220.8 KB open | download kdc2 03/26/2015 Read message
Derr economizer.jpg 97.1 KB open | download Rolly 03/26/2015 Read message
Marine economizer.jpg 51.2 KB open | download Rolly 03/26/2015 Read message
Tryall.jpg 30.5 KB open | download Rolly 03/26/2015 Read message