The main reason I am interested in turbo/fan blower is size. An automotive turbo is just a radial fan. True it is a special class. The thing is they can move a large volume of air in a small space. So what I am looking for is a design to move air. The.question is how much air does an automotive turbo provide and at what RPM with little restriction on the flow. I can get 80,000 RPM DC moters. Is it worth the investment to try.

Andy

Andy,
Just look up axial flow blowers (fans) on Wikipedia and Google, there are a ton of firms making them with full specs available. No mystery at all.
Jim

Model jet guys airstarted there jet with a hair blowdryer on like 5hp jetengine,on out to around 25hp. airstart with electric leafblower... Then the airstart on the helicopter at the hospital is about 40+hp for air ambulance.All are loud to some degree......all are radial inflow/centrifugal blowers.The vaccuum cleaner has a pretty high pressure radial flow because blade tips are covered like a jet well pump instead of open like the blower you have on the flywheel of your lawnmower.

I also a used heater fan housing off a junk car,after figured out the electric leaf blower was a little bit of overkill on 10 horse wood chip fired monotube(was gasifiering and collecting the ash like the 10Megwatt boilers did at the sawmills) .
My steam Garden tractor ran but the controls were a pain to line out.The mower blades were louder than the blowers ,so whatever works for you.

frustrated Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The navy used Foster-Wheeler P-fired boilers on
> the Garcia class frigates. The boiler room had 2
> boilers running 1200 PSI at 1000 F.
>
> Combustion air was supplied by an 11 stage axial
> flow compressor which was connected to 3 prime
> movers:
>
> 1. Electric Motor
> 2. Steam Turbine
> 3. Gas Turbine
>
>
> The gas turbine was driven by flue exhaust
> gasses. These three power sources could be used
> singly or in combination as needed . As I
> understand the operation, it typically went
> something like this. The electric motor powered
> the axial compressor when starting the boiler from
> cold iron, drawing power from either shore
> connection or the ships diesel generators. During
> cruise the driving force was supplied by the
> boiler exhaust gases. The steam turbine was used
> to supply added oomph when rapid acceleration or
> high sustained speeds were necessary.
>
> Assuming most axial flow compressors of that era
> raise pressure about 1 atmosphere per stage; we
> can figure the combustion air was supplied at
> something near, or perhaps even a bit above, 150
> psi.
>
> Probably the only more - or - less credible design
> for a small P-fired boiler that I know of is that
> patented by Nathan C Price. Interesting guy,
> worked for Doble, worked on Besler's steam
> airplane, designed all kinds of steam waste heat
> and propulsion systems for a few different
> aviation companies and eventually designed an
> axial flow afterburning jet engine while working
> for Lockheed in the late 30s...including bleed air
> for boundry layer control....about 15 years ahead
> of the curve. Too bad the government didn't fund
> Lockheed.
>
> Anyhow, see his patent # 2,223,856 at:
> [docs.google.com]
> orage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US2223856.pdf
>
> Ken

Interesting discussion. I have long thought that a pressure fired plant could be used in a high output steam car. In 1973 I managed the overhaul of the USS Talbot DEG4 at the Boston naval shipyard. Being a steamer at heart, I was very interested in the pressure fired steam plant. When these boilers would wind up, they would raise the hair on the back of your neck. VERY impressive. I would make a few corrections on Ken's description; the firing pressure at full speed was 50 psig. and the superchargers started on the electric motors, ran on the steam turbines at mid power and the gas turbines at higher powers. The water capacity was very small in these boilers and if you lost feedwater you were in trouble in about 3 seconds, iow no chance for manual control at any significant power level. Terry

Had something of the same feeling when Gearing DD's(WWII destoryers stilling running in Viet Nam) were running 36knot flank on sea trails in 6ft white caps.That thing sound like an exec. jet cruising out thru there. The screws were rumbling enough that a jack hammer would have been quieter in after steering.

I was a Bolierman BT3 aboard USS Glover , Garcia class destroyer for 4 years. Ran the P fired boiler. Just a comment. It’s true when we changed from standard speed to full or flank speed the supercharger sounded like my Chevelle SS. Electric motor motor only used in cold iron stare to get the boiler warm. Was the exhaust gas built up the gas turbine will automatically disengage the electric motor. We used crushed walnut shells to clean the carbon off the blades.

In 1930s Nathan Price proposed design of a turbocharged steam generator for an aircraft with 5000 hp steam turbine driven propeller. In theory its power was constant all the way up to 45,000 ft, despite air density only 20% of sea level.
Air was compressed by a turbocharger to 35 psi.
Calcilated weight of this generator with water was just 1800 lbs
[patentimages.storage.googleapis.com]

In automobile steam powerplant the turbocharger's extra power can be used to drive auxiliary loads such as condenser and boiler feed pump. That will boost overall efficiency higher, up to 20-25%.

Cycle efficiency of air-cooled steam powerplants (for automobiles)

[ntrs.nasa.gov]

Los Angeles 1973 steam buses powerplants testing final report

[libraryarchives.metro.net]

More steam bus testing here:

[libraryarchives.metro.net]


Steam buses were not economical due to poor fuel economy, partially due to large power consumed by steam comdensers fans in summer.


AN EXERCISE IN STEAM CAR DESIGN

[citeseerx.ist.psu.edu]





CONDENSERS AND BOILERS FOR STEAM-POWERED CARS: A PARAMETRIC ANALYSIS OF THEIR SIZE, WEIGHT, AND REQUIRED FAN POWER.

[ntrs.nasa.gov]
Low emission combustor/vapor generator for Rankine automotive engines
[nepis.epa.gov]


Steam car monotube boiler control system

[nepis.epa.gov]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2020 04:54PM by novice.

DougB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
It’s true when we
> changed from standard speed to full or flank speed
> the supercharger sounded like my Chevelle SS.

That must have been fun!
I've always wished I could be in the engine room of a battleship at flank speed

"I've always wished I could be in the engine room of a battleship at flank speed"

.....Me too, guess I have to settle for the engine room of a Nimitz class supercarrier....

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