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Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901

Posted by David Schubert 
Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 13, 2010 01:00PM
I am trying to find more information on this car, and the company in general, with hopes of recreating it out of parts that I have. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

David

1901 Milwaukee
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 13, 2010 06:13PM
Probably nothing really new here for you, but the Milwaukee company wasn't around very long....

Regards,

Ken
Attachments:
open | download - Milwaukee1.pdf (556.7 KB)
open | download - Milwaukee2.pdf (597.5 KB)
open | download - Milwaukee3.pdf (539 KB)
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 14, 2010 07:08PM
I had the patent for the Sedgwick valve gear in my files. According to Horseless Age it was used on at least on Milwaukee steamer. See Attached.

Ken
Attachments:
open | download - 676801.PDF (406.2 KB)
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 15, 2010 08:15AM
Little bit more...


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 15, 2010 04:34PM
Dear Ken, Good job on digging up the Milwaukee information. It was good reading. Thank you. SSsssteamer
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 15, 2010 09:37PM
Steamer,

De nada. My pleasure!

Ken
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 16, 2010 08:23PM
Ken,

Wow! Thanks for all the information; I have not been on the site in a of couple days and was pleasantly surprised with all of your finds.

David
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 18, 2010 01:14AM
Dear Dave Shubert, Sorry to burst your Milwaukee Steamer bubble, but Gary Baese out of Fort Collins, Colorado has correctly identified your attached "photo with the dog on the hood" as being a 1903 Haynes-Apperson runabout. In my Standard Catalog of American Cars" on page 657 is a photo fo the same type of car. Just like in your photo, the Haynes-Apperson also has a wood handled crank handle located above the left running board for starting its gas engine. The 1902 Milwaukee had its steering on the right hand side instead of the left like the Haynes-Apperson did. Both of their hoods look about the same. The Milwaukee was still one fine steam car though. SSsssteamer



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2010 09:41PM by SSsssteamer.
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 18, 2010 01:21AM
The real Milwaukees can be found by going to steamautomobile.com home page and entering "milwaukee steamer" with quotes and all in the search box. There was a thread on this some years ago and the car(s) were identified. Nice to see the chassis info come up too!!

Karl Petersen
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 18, 2010 05:09PM
Karl and SSsssteamer,

Thanks for the information. Now I am really confused and trying to figure out how or why the incorrect information was posted with the photo; hard to believe that the author of the newspaper article in May of 1901 identified Dr Windmueller correctly and then got the make, model, and power system of the car incorrect.

As of about an hour ago the Woodstock Public Library, that posted the photo, has begun to research the information that the have in their possession that placed that photo with the attached story about Dr Windmueller's automobile.

SSssteamer: I have been unable to locate any photo of the Milwaukee car you reference (steering on the right and hood similar to the Haynes-Apperson...could you please post the photo if you have access to it.

Thanks to everyone for their help!

The research continues---(half the fun I think)

David
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 18, 2010 05:39PM
"...hard to believe that the author of the newspaper article in May of 1901 identified Dr Windmueller correctly and then got the make, model, and power system of the car incorrect."

Knowing the ease of getting an article messed up, I could guess that they knew the doctor bought a car, and it was a Milwaukee car (since they went to Milwaukee to obtain it), so they wrote that it was a Milwaukee Car. There are also Stanleys which are steamers but were built by a different Stanley in a different state. Don't tell that to the members of the press, they will simply write a long article on how easily confused people get when driving on steam.

Karl Petersen
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 18, 2010 07:06PM
Now you campare a 1902 Milwaukee with a 1903 Haynes-Apperson. The Milwaukee image is an artist's conception. These images are the courtesy of the "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805-1942" by Beverly Rae Kimes. This is a must have book and it answers many car questions.


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 18, 2010 08:06PM
David Schubert first wrote, "...with hopes of recreating it out of parts that I have."

So, what kind of parts do you have? Anything steamy? Anything Haynes-Appersonian?

Karl Petersen
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 19, 2010 12:46AM
David,

Here are a few links to some finds via Google books.

[books.google.com]

page 107

[books.google.com]

page 77-81

[books.google.com]

page 229

Caleb Ramsby
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 19, 2010 09:42AM
Caleb
Off topic
Thanks for the posting, some great photos of Herreshoff’s steamboats and other hull lines. Also great photos of his early metal hulls frames with bronze plate for the New York 30 thirty’s. He destroyed a lot of these boats after only one season to use the bronze plate on a newer hull the next year. The bronze plate was two expensive.
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 19, 2010 11:55AM
As SSsssteamer said, the crank handle on the driver's side is pretty much a giveaway - not needed on a steam car.

The 1902 Haynes looked somewhat different from Dr. Windmueller's car, but the 1903 is a dead ringer, right down to the sidelights. It seems possible that the doctor bought a Milwaukee steamer in May of 1901, and bought a Haynes-Apperson in 1903 or later, and the Woodstock photo is from 1903 or later.

Kelly

(Attached 1902 photo is from Wikipedia, 1903 ad is from an eBay posting.)


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 19, 2010 03:13PM
Karl,

What I have at the moment is shown below on the left.

I recently purchased this from an elderly gentleman who was building it into a tiller steered spindle seat runabout ---the engine is a Milwaukee vertically mounted under the seat, chain drive to rear axle

---the wheel spindles are steam era of unknown province
---the frame is patterned after an early Stanley wood pole frame
---the boiler is new construction, 14" x 14" (nominal) with 256 copper fire tubes
---the sloped area behind the seat is fully consumed by a water tank
---The tires and rims are 26 x 2-1/8

I realize the car will never be a "restoration" and will only ever be a "representation" at best; given the limits of my finances and talents I am content with that.

Since the one identifiable piece I purchased was the Milwaukee engine my initial intentions were to take what I had purchased, bulldoze back as far as needed and convert it to a tubular steel frame, three spring, tiller steered, rear boiler, Stanhope style Milwaukee of circa 1900ish (which at the time was the only Milwaukee style I had ever seen)

David



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2011 08:01PM by David Schubert.
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
December 27, 2010 06:13AM
Did some more deconstruction over the weekend.

The engine is serial number #272...now I just need to find some production records to tie to that.

It has an integral oil pump and an interesting air pump.

The air pump cylinder, a closed end tube, moves with the crosshead bearing and the piston is fixed, and hollow, acting as the discharge pipe. Air is admitted at the top of the stroke by the cylinder moving beyond the fixed piston so there is no inlet valve. The discharge pipe has an integral elbow and a tire style "valve stem" with a cap. I presume this is so that the system can be pressurized with a detachable hand pump when the engine is not running.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2010 07:16AM by David Schubert.


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
January 10, 2011 08:14AM
Latest tidbit: a picture of a 1901 four seat surrey from "Old Time Steam Cars" by John Bentley copyright 1953


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
January 11, 2011 12:02PM
Does anyone know how this style lubricator works?

I am famillier with hydrostatic displacement, mechanical ratchet, and the Stanley piston pump styles but this does not appear to be any of those.


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
January 11, 2011 01:21PM
Its is a hydrostatic lubricator.
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
January 11, 2011 02:00PM
Thanks.
Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
January 23, 2011 01:31PM
Acquired a copy of a Milwaukee Automobile Co sales brochure from 1900 yesterday.

Listed are eight "Styles" A-F, H, and L; with the five bodies pictured. Some of the variations were as simple as fuel and water tank sizing or spindle versus panel seating, the H and L having a longer wheelbase to accommodate the four seats or cargo space. Below are the pictures:


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
January 23, 2011 02:09PM
A few other interesting or puzzling items from the 1900 sales brochure:

---"We have eliminated all fads and unnecessary appliances, even discarding some automatic devices which experiance has proved to be uncertain"

---the vaporizer runs "through the boiler" according to the literature so that the burner is quickly re-lit if the boiler is hot...I think the single coil of tubing pictured on top of the boiler flues must be the vaporizer (picture attached)

---the car came standard with electric battery and globe lights for the water glass and steam gauge and a foot operated electric chime gong as a warning device

---painted Black or Brewster green with Aurora Red panels, frame, and rims

---drive/driven sprockets 12/30 tooth

---single acetylene headlight standard (appears to be a Badger Bras Solar lamp from Kenosha Wisconsin), two acetylene side lights optional

---boot over boiler etc is enameled sheet metal

---bottom of burner is covered with "brass gauze netting" "protecting the flame from air currents"...I take this to mean it is an atmospheric burner similar to the Lane

---if you compare the photo of my engine #272 to the drawing in the brochure they are identical. But they are very different from the engine in Henry Warp's 1900 Milwaukee (pictures attached)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 04:18PM by David Schubert.


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
January 26, 2011 08:50PM
I received a copy of a 1901 Milwaukee sales brochure from the Ohio Historical Society today and it solved a few mysteries and noted some interesting changes from the 1900 sales brochure I picked up from Wisconsin.

Changes from 1900:
---switched to a side tiller as standard, center steering tiller as an option (photo attached)
---"KK" touring had a steering wheel (photo attached)
---the H and KK went to a four spring running gear
---engine and tiller match the Henry Warp car making me wonder if it is not a 1901
---gauge went from 4'-6" to 4'-8 1/2" "to fit the street car tracks"
---fuel and water tanks are larger, the smallest listed is 7.5 and 30 compared to the 5 and 21 from the prior year
---boiler tubes increased to 402 and 60 square feet of heating, up from 50
---feed water automatic and low water alarm added "makes a burnt boiler almost impossible"
---wheels reduced from 30" to 28"
---standard color is now Black or Brewster Green with Olive Green gear instead of Aurora Red
---Boiler is tin lined for corrosion resistance
---flexible steam joint "which take up all movement" from the boiler to the engine (photo attached)
---"specially designed burner obviates the necessity of a torch" (the 1900 came with a torch as part of the tool kit)
---sight feed oiler for cylinders (not mentioned in 1900 literature) another reason to believe Warp's is a 1901
---feed water pre-heater (economizer) added
---"an attachment for cleaning the engine chain and parts" sounds like a power washer running off the boiler steam


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
February 14, 2011 04:15PM
Latest find; a 1901 advertisement from a magazine.


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
February 17, 2011 02:31PM
Found an interesting confirmation of the newspaper account that began this discussion (even though it was correlated with the incorrect photo)

Attached are photos of the cover and title page from the Milwaukee Automobile Co's 1901 sales literature it includes, on page 33, Dr Windmueller's letter of recomendation for their product.


Re: Milwaukee Automobile Co 1901
June 08, 2011 01:43PM
The Milwaukee literature I have refers to a foot operated "chime gong". In the drawings from the liturature I have posted it appears to be an oversized bicycle chime mounted under the floor, behind the front spring and in front of the fuel tank.

Has anyone seen anthing like this before?

The only foot operated chime I have been able to find from that period is a single bell, with a flat base for mounting to the bottom of the floor, that came from a subway car. The one pictured in the Milwaukee catalog appears to have two bells much like the aforementioned bicycle chime.
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All files from this thread

File Name File Size   Posted by Date  
Milwaukee1.pdf 556.7 KB open | download frustrated 12/13/2010 Read message
Milwaukee2.pdf 597.5 KB open | download frustrated 12/13/2010 Read message
Milwaukee3.pdf 539 KB open | download frustrated 12/13/2010 Read message
676801.PDF 406.2 KB open | download frustrated 12/14/2010 Read message
running gear1.JPG 73.4 KB open | download frustrated 12/15/2010 Read message
running gear2.JPG 26.7 KB open | download frustrated 12/15/2010 Read message
1902 Milwaukee steam.jpg.jpg 435.3 KB open | download SSsssteamer 12/18/2010 Read message
1903 Haynes Apperson.jpg.jpg 316.8 KB open | download SSsssteamer 12/18/2010 Read message
800px-Elwood_Haynes_driving_a_Haynes-Apperson_car_in_the_Long_Island_non-stop_contest_in_April_1902.jpg 122.8 KB open | download Kelly 12/19/2010 Read message
Haynes_1903ad.jpg 128.7 KB open | download Kelly 12/19/2010 Read message
Milwaukee Engine #272.jpg 167.1 KB open | download David Schubert 12/27/2010 Read message
Oil Pump.jpg 131.7 KB open | download David Schubert 12/27/2010 Read message
Air Pump.jpg 149.9 KB open | download David Schubert 12/27/2010 Read message
Milwaukee in Old Time Steam Cars Copyright 1953.jpg 23.3 KB open | download David Schubert 01/10/2011 Read message
Milwaukee oiler.jpg 65.8 KB open | download David Schubert 01/11/2011 Read message
Style A and B.JPG 26.6 KB open | download David Schubert 01/23/2011 Read message
Style C and D.JPG 29.7 KB open | download David Schubert 01/23/2011 Read message
Style E and F.JPG 23.7 KB open | download David Schubert 01/23/2011 Read message
Style H.JPG 30.7 KB open | download David Schubert 01/23/2011 Read message
Style L.JPG 30.9 KB open | download David Schubert 01/23/2011 Read message
DSCN27730786.JPG 26.9 KB open | download David Schubert 01/23/2011 Read message
Henry Warp 1900 Milwaukee oiler.jpg 65.8 KB open | download David Schubert 01/23/2011 Read message
DSCN27740787.JPG 25.4 KB open | download David Schubert 01/23/2011 Read message
DSCN27800793.JPG 33.3 KB open | download David Schubert 01/23/2011 Read message
1901 Model B.JPG 31.6 KB open | download David Schubert 01/26/2011 Read message
1901 Model H.JPG 28.4 KB open | download David Schubert 01/26/2011 Read message
1901 Model KK.JPG 26.2 KB open | download David Schubert 01/26/2011 Read message
1901 engine.JPG 37.3 KB open | download David Schubert 01/26/2011 Read message
1901 Boiler, Flexible steam joint, and burner.JPG 31.4 KB open | download David Schubert 01/26/2011 Read message
1901 Magazine Ad.JPG 32.5 KB open | download David Schubert 02/14/2011 Read message
1901 Catalog Cover.jpg 99.4 KB open | download David Schubert 02/17/2011 Read message
1901 Catalog Title Page.jpg 37.2 KB open | download David Schubert 02/17/2011 Read message
Dr. Windmueller\'s recomendation.jpg 46.5 KB open | download David Schubert 02/17/2011 Read message