Re: US Land Steam Record!!
April 29, 2011 12:46PM
Ernie-

Thanks for the tip--I'll keep and eye out for a CVT when I'm up north this fall.

At Bonneville,they've always used a black stripe down the middle of the track-but a coupla years ago, they went to using large orange markers down either side of the track every 1/4 mile or so. I don't plan to paint an "aiming" stripe on the Streamliner-I think it's going to stay pretty straight on its own, and will just take a bit of a touch now and then to keep it in the center of the course.

I'll be putting up more photos of the progress as we go along--so you'll be able to see the rear end arrangement when we get to it.

Attached is a shot looking straight down the Long Course at Bonneville-about 8-10 miles of smoooth salt-just made for going FAST!


Chuk

TEAM STEAM USA


Re: US Land Steam Record!!
April 29, 2011 04:49PM
At 150mph, the question about lift is handled rather easily. I worked with Walt Korff, the aerodynamics designer of the Goldenrod LSR car at Lockheed, and got a good idea about what the real concerns were and was most surprised about what did not matter. With the shape of the bottom properly considered, the downforce is amazing.

As an example of this downforce, when I built my steam Citroen, I made a series of runs to measure air pressure all over the body so I could position air ducts where they would use the natural pressures most efficiently for radiator and comubstion air. The chassis bottom is nearly flat and is closest to the ground between the front wheels and lifts away as it goes back to the rear. This provides an inverse wedge and the pressures all over the top of the car compared to the pressure under the car hold the car onto the road more as the speed increases. This can be read proportionately through the suspensions pressures at the front and rear. They go up amazingly as the speeds increase. Although I did not make any runs over 70mph, simply calculating the down force on the chassis confirms this. Using a width of 62in and length of only the wheelbase of 123in, multiplying by the differential pressure from the average top to the center of the bottom panel, I calculate at 50, 60 and 70mph differential pressures of 0.7, 1.1 and 2.0 in/H2O which give downforces of 192, 303 and 551 pounds. I expect this to go up much faster at higher speeds.

I did use a sedan for the measurements, but my steam car is a wagon, and I can tell you that the long straight body gives even greater downforce. I had an older wagon up to 120mph. It gripped the road like it was on rails and compressed and firmed up the suspension giving increasingly solid handling at speed. This was with the 1.9L long stroke engine with bolted on counterweights and well past the torque peak, rated at 66hp max (without aux. loads).

Karl Petersen
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 01, 2011 02:59PM
Karl-

We're using the same principle that you mention-the front of the car is slightly closer to the ground than the rest of the car. The upper part of the body at the front has a slope/scoop between the wheels to encourage the air flow to go over the car instead of under it. In addition, the body tapers in behind the front wheels-which will tend to create a low pressure area and pull the air out from under the car. The rear sits higher off the ground by about an inch, which will also tend to create a low pressure area under the rear of the vehicle.

Of course, too much downforce simply translates into drag-which we don't want. Ideally, we want to be almost neutral up until the speed gets over 100mph, and then have the downforce go slowly up. When we get the vehicle running and roadworthy, an important part of our testing procedure is going to be simply driving the vehicle at speed and getting a feel for the handling. It's gonna be lots of fun!!


Chuk

TEAM SPEED USA
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 03, 2011 06:39PM
Hi Chuck
Will there be any sort of adjustment screws, on the chasis, or in the cockpit, for raising or lowering the front end for minor tweaking of the down pressure? Too bad the low rider systems are so heavy, you could adjust on the fly.. Adjustable air shocks? It might be a non issue for under 200 mph. I tend to put the cart in front of the horse sometimes! LOL!

Later... Ernie
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 03, 2011 10:07PM
I vote non issue. Maybe a 50 lb weight placed somewhere -keith
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 04, 2011 08:54AM
Gentlemen-

We have coilover shocks that are adjustable, so the ride height can be varied to some degree. To begin with we'll go with the front set about an inch lower than the rear and see how it goes during the testing process to determine what gives the best stability. Some of the streamliners that I've seen at Bonneville have quite a drastic difference between the front and rear ride height-a good example is the one in the attached photo. The photo is of the Poteet and Main Streamliner at a speed of over 400 mph--when he passed, all you heard was a wheeeoohh!!


Chuk

TEAM STEAM USA


Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 04, 2011 03:06PM
Cool!!! Thanks Chuk!
Say... If you don't get a major sponsor in the near future, who is going to get to name the car? I wrote down about a dozen catchy names, as they came to me over the past few months. Maybe you could do a raffle type thing. One name suggestion for each $100 donation or something on that order. It might put gas in the hauler or might be a dumb idea.. I've had a few of those in my time. Thanks again for keeping us up to date on the workings of the future record holder!
My Best... Ernie
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 05, 2011 07:27AM
Ernie-

We already have a major sponsor--Cyclone Power!! The car is called the "Cyclone Streamliner"....and has been for a year now. If someone else wants to come up with a substancial sum for sponsorship-then we'll consider renaming it.



Chuk

TEAM STEAM USA
HLS
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 16, 2011 01:28PM
this news just came out
[www.sun-sentinel.com]
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 18, 2011 06:34PM
Thanks for the link Harry...

I read the newspaper article with much interest.

I did not realize Chuk has put out 50,000 dollars of his own money. I think the colaberation is good, because I am certian that you matched or exceeded that amount, with regards to the LSR attempt.

I also remember Chuk pointing out that small contributions are important, because this will help out greatly with traveling costs.

I would like to see this car run safely, even if its a process of going thru the motions, I would not criticize the attempt if it was a proofing run, and high speeds were not attained (over 60mph). It would be fair to say "were just getting used to this"....

Jeremy
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 18, 2011 08:21PM
Oh Ya, quick question Chuk,

Im sure you have calculated "center of gravity" for the chassis :ie 1 foot under road surface(example). Also what is the Caster degree + you have selected for the front end based on GVW and projected speed. I think most streamliner's have simular settings (like +1° to +3° R/L caster as an example). [caster is easily adjusted]

Jeremy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2011 08:23PM by Jeremy Holmes.
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 18, 2011 09:16PM
Here's a link to a caster bubble gauge, good tool to have...

[www.circletrack.com]


Jeremy
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 18, 2011 10:49PM
Jeremy-

If you look closer at the Sentinel article, you'll see that it says I have spent a bit of my own $$s, with the rough total somewhere in the $50K range. We're not done with the build of the vehicle yet, and we have the future logistics of testing it-also transporting the whole operation to the Salt Flats...so the total $$s required for the Project is anyone's guess until we're done.

As regards caster--that was set when I built the front suspension early last year. I cannot remember what degree the Rulebook dictated, but whatever it was-that's what I set it on.

Things are progressing..next week I'm taking the chassis back over to Cyclone for the final fitting of the body. Meanwhile, I've been busy working on the installation of the fuel cell, as well as a few other minor details(there are endless "minor" details!)-and so it goes!!

Cheers--Chuk

TEAM SPEED USA !
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 19, 2011 09:44AM
That sounds really good Chuk. You may have some difficulty measuring caster now, since the front wheels must be turned 20° in each direction to make the measurement.

If the caster is not identical between the right and left side front suspension, the car will pull to the to the side with the least amount of caster at speed. Something else that should be checked is the "thrustline" from the rear wheels it should be 0°. If the thrust angle is not zero the car will dog track at speed.

I know you have steering travel limited, and this is fine, as long as the the alignment angles are correct, if there not, you may not be able to compensate for a "pull" with the limited steering arrangement.

I think you guys are doing a great job and keeping your minds open. If you need anyhelp with regards to the alignment of the vehicle, let me know I would be happy to help, I am a re-certified ASE Master Tech, I was first certified as a master tech in 1993, and my certification is still valid today, since I retake the master tech exam every 5 years.

GO TEAM SPEED USA !!!

Jeremy
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 19, 2011 01:19PM
Someting else to consider, most likely the streamliner frame wont fit on an alignment rack. But the alignment can be done on the floor with turn tables under the front wheels, and blocks of wood of simular thickness under the back wheels. A friend of my family has this type of alignment machine (wireless) that can be used and will generate a print out on all the alignment specs, I could then sign off "as inspected and verifed" on the print out.

The place is one mile from where im at (exit 16 turnpike 152st) I would love for atleast someone from the club to visit my base of operations, where I work as a process engineer. The opportunity will be lost shortly after June, when I move to Tenessee, and open an auto repair shop up there...

Jeremy

-edit- removed one picture to protect cert ID#-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2011 10:42AM by Jeremy Holmes.


Re: US Land Steam Record!!
May 29, 2011 03:20PM
Hey Everyone!!

This week has been an exciting one! The upper body shell is completed and faired, and has been fitted to the frame. We've cut the hatches for the cockpit and engine access, and the tailfin will be completed by the time I get back over to Pompano Beach next week.

Next Saturday-the 4th-we'll have the Streamliner on display at the Pompano Citi Centre for the "Honor Our Troops" fundraiser put on by the DAV.It's an all-day affair with food, live music,celebrities, and a huge hotrod /antique car show.

Everyone that's within a sensible driving distance--come on down and hang out with us at the Cyclone Power Booth!!

We'll see you there!!


Chuk Williams

TEAM STEAM USA


Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 12, 2011 10:50AM
Hey-

I want to give everyone an update on our Streamliner progress....this past week the body was finished and fitted to the frame. On Saturday, the 4th, we took it to a benefit car show in Pompano Beach put on by the DAV. The body wasn't painted, but we were received very well by the attendant crowd. Lots of hot rods, muscle cars-and us!!

Next week, I'm going back to Pompano Beach to pick up the completed and painted body from Harry and his crew. Then-get started on the real work of installing all the remaining bits and pieces that make it a running Streamliner--minus the engine! We should have the engine dynoed and ready to fit into the car by the 1st of July...then we'll be bustin our hump to get it installed and lined up-ready to run...

Just 8 weeks until Speed Week-like the song says-"We gotta long way to go, and a short time to get there"!


Cheers--Chuk

TEAM SPEED USA


Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 13, 2011 01:26AM
Now THAT looks like a record breaker! Well done Chuk

Cheers
Mark
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 13, 2011 10:55PM
Hi Chuck..
Everything looks great! I was wondering if you are going to get a chance to make a few test runs somewhere, before you go to speed week. "Just to get a feel for the old girl", so-to-speak..
Best.... Ernie
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 14, 2011 06:44PM
Hey Ernie!!

Yes, we are planning to do some testing before dragging the car all the way to Bonneville!! We've found a 10,000 foot runway in S Florida that we're hoping to be able to use for a day.....it'll be nice to get a feel for the car before running it up to high speed, and to test the operation of all the systems.

Thanks again-everyone-for all your emotional and financial support...that's been a big part of what has gotten us this far! If our luck holds, we'll have the rest of the details taken care of in time to make it to the Salt Flats and get our shot at the Record!


Chuk

TEAM STEAM USA
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 16, 2011 05:02PM
Great news on the airstrip Chuk!
Say, I sent possibly a really important email to the LSR email address concerning an alternate fuel producer who is very anxious to get on board for the steam record. The guy who called me said the CEO of the company was almost jumping up and down excited when he found out about the opportunity. He wants you or someone from Cyclone to contact him asap after today. The details are in the email I sent to LSR email address. If you didn't recieve it, you can email me direct at: stockmonster@charter.net. If he can get his company name in a good spot on the car it might just put financing over the top.. Talk to you later! Ernie
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 17, 2011 10:19AM
Ernie,

Your overall thoughts and due diligence are appreciated, not only here but on other sites...this is great news for you to have worked this situation out...or at least put the players in the same room and let them work out the details to make this record breaking day a reality. If it is not to much to inquire about the alternative fuel company that you brought up...could you fill in the masses??

Chuck,

Over the years, there have been dreamers and then there have been those that have acted on those dreams. Continue to push though the long tough hours to allow this dream to become reality...not only is it your dream now, my friend...there are thousands, if not 10,000's of thousands of folks, out here, that are dreaming along side of you.

JJ
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 17, 2011 07:13PM
Well-

I don't know if there are 1000's of LSR dreamers out there-but there are a good number of people who have shared my dream, and have contributed their hard-earned bucks to help make the dream become a reality. Of course, we have a way to go before we even have a running machine, and even a lot further to go before we can claim a Record-but, nevertheless--"we've come a long way baby!"

This week I've been taking care of a lot of details...finishing the roll bar padding, packing wheel bearings, installing the required locknuts on all the steering and suspension components, installing the panhard rod on the rear suspension.....all in preparation for an intense next week over at Cyclone in Pompano Beach. We'll be installing most of the remaining components: batteries, pumps, blowers, etc,etc--and if all goes well-the engine!!

We're getting down to the final few weeks now-only 7 weeks until we hit the road to the Salt Flats!!


Chuk


TEAM STEAM USA
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 20, 2011 11:34AM
Do you have a tenative date in August Chuck?
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 20, 2011 09:09PM
Yes--Speed Week at Bonneville this year is August 13th thru the 19th. We're planning to get there on the 9th or 10th, so we can get thru the inspection process early. New vehicles like ours have a very tough safety inspection to go thru before we will be allowed to run, so it will be advantageous to get that cleared up and out of the way early, so we can relax and just enjoy running the Streamliner.

This week I'm in Pompano Beach working with Harry and his crew, dealing with getting the body painted, dynoing the engine and getting plumbing and electrical systems up and running. Today we installed the rear axle, with its drive pulleys and belts...everything fit just like it should....the first time!

Tomorrow, part of the crew will be working on getting the engine ready to dyno, while the rest of us will be concentrating on the plumbing and electrical hook-up, as well as mounting the various components--batteries, pumps, etc,etc.

Seven weeks to go--we're getting there!!


Chuk

TEAM STEAM USA
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 20, 2011 11:10PM
I am proud to be apart of this, as an investor. You have made my life so much more hopeful. I live in Utah, and hope I can be out there to watch. This is nothing short of miraculous. Thank you so much for your hard work!!! This is the ultimate game changer of our lifetimes~~ so great to be apart of it!! You only live once!
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 21, 2011 10:38AM
Hi billy2bob

Thank you for investing. I wish I had the wherewithal to participate. Given my straitened means and precarious employment situation, it is just not possible now. I agree that the Cyclone engine and LSR project are game changers. You must be proud to play a part.

As a practicing Buddhist, I must take exception to your last statement. I come from a railroading family. I believe I was a steam locomotive engineer in a previous life. This is the only way I can explain my compulsion to learn everything I can about steam locos and railroading in particular.

Kerry
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 21, 2011 08:10PM
Hey-

Thanks-you two-for the kind words! I don't know if the LSR Project is a game changer or not, but the Cyclone engine very well may be. I know that I've really enjoyed building the Streamliner, and now that we're getting close to the end of the build-moving on toward the additional enjoyment of the actual testing and running of the vehicle-I'm really getting fired up about driving the machine at high speed!

We've had a bit of a set-back....today we got the word that we would NOT be able to do our testing at the afore-mentioned South Florida airport. The FAA cracked down on the Broward County authorities that were managing the airport, and closed it until further notice. So--we're looking for a new test track close by......we'll find something.

Today was a long day at the Cyclone shop--working on the engine and the vehicle....practically the whole Cyclone shop crew is helping out with the Streamliner in one way or another. We got quite a bit done--a little closer to having it together and running!!


Cheers---Chuk



TEAM STEAM USA
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 24, 2011 12:33PM
Hi Chuk..

I say bypass authority, and bribe the guy at the gate for a couple hour to look the other way. It's not like you are going to make a heck of a lot of noise or anything! LOL!

Later... Ernie
Re: US Land Steam Record!!
June 24, 2011 09:00PM
Hey-Everyone!

I just arrived back home, after spending the week working with Harry and crew at Cyclone-things are moving along!! We accomplished a lot this week.....and we received the body back from the paint shop-it's slick! The engine is coming along-next week will see it running on the dyno and being installed in the Streamliner. Part of the electrical system is installed, the instrument panel is partly done.....this is one of those instances where lots of things are hanging out-partially completed, with not much visible progress-and then it all comes together quickly at one time.

Monday morning early, I'll be back over at the Cyclone shop to help make sure all those things do come together. This next week, I expect we'll see some huge progress!!

Thanks for all your continued support!

Chuk


TEAM STEAM USA


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