US Land Steam Record!!

Hi Chuk,

I for one fully support your decision! Way to go, man! Per Ken's comments, I will not ask any awkward questions. And personally, I don't like making my projects dependent upon outside suppliers of equipment.

That being said, despite my previously-expressed [and thankfully un-censored] grave personal doubts, based on my over 30 years of light steam power research, I too would be most pleased to see Cyclone achieve their stated goals.

More importantly, and more to the point, I think that your independent approach to breaking the Steam Land Speed Record is now far more likely to succeed!

As you are no doubt aware, there are a number of well-proven boilers and steam engines available which can achieve this goal.

Peter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2012 07:35AM by Peter Brow.

Thanks again-everyone-for your continued support!

The decision was not an easy one, and I hope everyone understands that. However, I am moving on with the Project-using one of the steam plants that I had originally considered to be suitable. Of course, there will be a bit of adaptation involved to fit the new plant, and that will be my next focus.

Right now, I'm working on a new vaporizing burner and the tests are looking good. Yesterday's tests went well with the burner-it ran dependably with no smoke or soot at rate of 15 gph using a less-than-ideal blower. With a better blower set-up, we can get into the 20+gph range without too much difficulty-using the existing burner arrangement.

If anyone knows of a 12v-24v blower that is available which will generate 400-500cfm at 6-10 inches w.p.--please let me know.

Off to work!!

Chuk

As a personal friend and acquaintance of both parties involved I wish to support what Ken Helmick has posted. I, as a representative of the club, have been watching and hoping that any developments would provide advertising and publicity for modern steam power and thus, indirectly, assist in publicizing our club. We are pretty good at steam technology but not that good at recruiting new members. In support of both parties I suggest that engineering development is a very expensive process and one difficult to predict. When this is done the steam community will have much good knowledge and we thank the Cyclone team for going to the effort. Tom Kimmel

Hi Chuk,

Hope the transition goes easy. Cincinnati Fan could likely match your specs. (513) 573-1000

Thanks again for traveling out west and showing off the streamliner.

Interesting situation. Has me thinking.

Keith

That blower is bigger than usual for 12 or 24V .... what kind of duty cycle and weight envelope are you considering? You're going to need prob. 1.5 hp in the motor. You'll want something higher speed (3400 rpm) to keep the diameter of the blower down to around 12" if you want to use direct drive; a belt drive will require some bearings but gives you more flexibility in motor selection. Diameter varies inversely with rpm for a given pressure, diameter varies as the square root of the pressure required.

Out of the box thinking.... can you use a steam engine exhaust driven turbo charger to provide draft? You could start it w/ a CO2 tank...

- Bart

----
Bart Smaalders [smaalders.net]

Alright, so things did not work out ideally as originally planned. Live with it and just let the dust settle and Chuk does what he can and Cyclone goes back to developing the engines for their clients.
We took three years of steady work before our Bonneville car actually did what I thought it capable of achieving, which it finally did in the hands of Bob Barber.
Armchair quarterbacking and second guessing is pointless unless one is capable of building his own LSR car and running it. So far that seems to be only a fantasy in some minds.
Leave Chuk and Harry alone and let them get on with what they are each doing, support them both and we all fervently hope that the end result is a new steam car record. Bonneville will still be there next year, so what is the problem if it does not run this year? Big deal.
i would love to see my old record and the British one smashed, so I hope someone does try again.

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2012 04:09PM by Jim Crank.

I agree that the basic fan is a bit large Bart, still might have a pointer. Since this is a speed record, the fan specs could be downsized a notch with some duct work to outside air with a stationary for startup? Would that violate any rules? -Keith

kdc2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that the basic fan is a bit large Bart,
> still might have a pointer. Since this is a speed
> record, the fan specs could be downsized a notch
> with some duct work to outside air with a
> stationary for startup?

Heck yes, a ram air intake with a conversion plenum feeding the blower intake would be just like a supercharger. If the steam generator has a little reserve in it to support the start of the run this could really feed more than enough air into the burner with a much smaller blower supporting.

There's the issue of the intake mod to the body, and the ductwork; all have to be carefully and correctly designed and executed or it won't work as intended.

Mr. Williams, meet Mr. Bernoulli--he could really help you with this issue!

Bill

Hey Chuk,

You may wish to contact Kayne and Son, they supply some high head sparky powered blowers for blacksmith forges. Their bigger one they have on their website is rated for 164 CFM and 40 oz. air pressure, which equals 69" of water!

[www.blacksmithsdepot.com]

I am not aware if the CFM rating for that blower is at its max head or free flowing, likewise I don't know if the 69" head is the max static output or at the rated CFM. I have found that different manufactures and sellers of fans give the data in different forms.

It is a 110V unit, but something to consider is running 9 or 10 12V motorcycle batteries in series to increase the volts. If you visit a local motorcycle dealership or repair shop you may be able to get a whole bunch of good used ones for cents on the dollar.

About a year and a half ago I did a bunch of research into centrifugal fans with roughly those requirements, just with a bit higher head requirement and virtually the only ones I found were massive units for industrial applications. The multistage centrifugal fans are some of the best for high head outputs, but they are not easy to find.

Lindsay Books has a book on building your own centrifugal fan:

[www.lindsaybks.com]

It says that none are availiable, but often they have a few squirreled away and the website may be out of date and they may have alread printed more books. I have a copy of that book, it is very good.

The prefered construction in the book is to have the fan driven by a pully. This, in my opinion, is a very good thing. That way one can change the fan speed by different pully ratios or slap in a more or less powerfull motor of whatever voltage you want or can find.

Just curious, are you planing on using the on/off fire control system as before?

Sounds like you already have you nose to the grindstone!

Caleb Ramsby

Hey Chuk,

I am sure you know this, but for those that don't, if the rating for the blacksmithing forge I linked to is 164 CFM at 69" of water, then it will be able to push one heck of a lot more air at the 6 - 10 inches water that you require, should be well over the 400 - 500 CFM that you require.

If not, then the people at Kayne and Son may very well be able to find something that would work for you.

Caleb Ramsby

Shouldn't this be a new topic?

Look for an axial fan type of blower, they pump more air than a centrifugal with less power. Ours was 1100-1300 cfm at 19" on 24 volts.
If you do use ram air into the blower, consider a Holly or Edelbrock carburetor to keep the mixture ratio constant available up to 1300 cfm.
Forget belts, they are bulky and waste power. LSR cars are brute force.
Jim

Thanks for the input everyone-ideas always help!

I have ruled out using the ram air effect, because to do so would require that the fuel system have to adjust to the increased air input in order to maintain the correct fuel/air ratio. I'm keeping it as simple as possible-for all the obvious reasons. I have the Lindsay book-it is a good one, and I might have to make my own blower-but if I can get the right one off the shelf and cheap enough-I'll go that way. I've got enough to do already!

To answer your question-Caleb....yes I plan to use a simplified on/off control system. It'll be basically the same system I used on my Dragster, which will do the job nicely. I'll start the steam generator-on low fire-using an electric feedpump and blower, with the manual steam dump valve open..and as soon as I get 100 psi or so of steam-I'll close the dump valve partway and start the engine, which brings the mechanical feedpump on line. I'll warm up the engine using the low fire air/fuel setting, running at 1500rpm or so while waiting for the go signal from the track controller. As soon as he gives me the high sign, I'll go to the hi/fire setting on the steam generator-completely close the dump valve, and watch the steam pressure go to full operating pressure of 800psi. The safety valve will be blowing off continuously, of course, until I get on the throttle. In the Dragster application, I went to full throttle and dropped the clutch, but of course, with the Streamliner I'll be getting gently on the throttle to negate wheelspin.

As you can see, in this application-there's not much need for other than a very basic control system. I have always controlled the steam temp with a manual needle valve, and have "usually" managed to keep the steam temp close to the desired temp of 800F. Of course, using the system in the Dragster, the warm up time was a coupla minutes-with a full power run of 10 secs or less. At the Salt Flats we will have a warm up time of a few minutes,with a full power run of 2-3 minutes, and so I might need to go to a different temp control system-we'll see how it goes when we get to that point.


Cheers--Chuk

Chuk--

Just trying to stimulate some helpful input here, I see a potential glitch on your horizon.

The feedwater rate vs firing rate issue is possibly the biggest for you given the range of speeds you're going to encounter--at least in terms of consistent control of temps and pressures. As I see it, you have several choices as follows:

1. Try to achieve some sort of proportional firing rate relative to the feedwater pump if you're going to use engine driven pump. I.E., as the FW pump increases its output the firing rate should somehow follow proportionally.

2. Try to achieve some sort of constant feedwater rate if you're going to use a constant firing rate. Several possibilities here would include separately powered feedwater pumping at a constant rate--or a form of excess flow dump as the speed increases. The problem here is, you have to establish the correct FW flow rate even if the vehicle is not moving at a significant speed or you'll encounter an imbalance in the relative rates which you don't want to deal with. The only answer to this scenario is to overflow the rate of the FW pump and then dump the excess at higher speeds--this means a relatively massive loss of wasted power to run the pump to useless excess.

The obvious and simplest answer is, try to achieve a stable and consistent FW supply which is relative to the firing rate of the burner. This means the simplest answer is to operate the FW pump independently of the engine IMO--using electrical power, or a separate steam motor. Personally, I think the modern electric motor is capable of providing the required power in either AC or DC as you choose and will eliminate an important variable you don't want (or need) to deal with when you're trying to pilot a land speed record vehicle.

KISS!! (no, you're NOT stoopid!)

Bill

Hey Chuk,

Thanks for the further information. I think you really got it right, repeat what has already worked for you, just push it all a bit harder.

I can't remember who it was, but someone used a multiple length small diameter coil pack for fuel delivery modulation. I believe three stacks of very small diameter tubing, each stack of a different length, the fuel pump was a constant speed, constant pressure automatice pressure bypass type, so when it was pumping fuel through the longer length of tubing there was less being delivered and visa versa.

This may be something to keep in mind for the water bypass temp control deal, say three coils of small diameter tubing with valves to open or close them, then no slow turning or finity setting, just slam the levers or lever system into a different position when an over or under temp light comes on. Just an idea.

Hey Bill,

Something to keep in mind here is that for a run as short as he will be doing, finite controls really don't matter. As long as the boiler doesn't flood or go dry and the steam temp is kept within one or two hundred degrees, well who cares. Just make lots of steam and slam it into the engine, the hysterisis of the boiler tubing and the engine will keep the conditions under relative control.

If the feed pumps are also on/off then there is only the mechanical friction and line back pressure to the water tank. With the Stanley "modulated" feed water automatic unless the bypass is wide open and no water is being delivered to the boiler, then all of the water being pumped is being pumped at more then boiler pressure.

All the thing has to do is survive a dozen or so runs, it doesn't have to be perfect.

Caleb Ramsby

Caleb Ramsby Wrote:

> Hey Bill,
>
> Something to keep in mind here is that for a run
> as short as he will be doing, finite controls
> really don't matter. As long as the boiler doesn't
> flood or go dry and the steam temp is kept within
> one or two hundred degrees, well who cares. Just
> make lots of steam and slam it into the engine,
> the hysterisis of the boiler tubing and the engine
> will keep the conditions under relative control.

Caleb:

I don't totally agree, this thing is gonna be a monster with that firing rate and I'd be afraid of burning things up without reasonable controls in place. Also, the issue of superheat is "super-important", you don't want it any colder than you have to--but again, you want to keep it from burning up. The engine will produce best power with designed (max) superheat.

Several things for darned sure:

1. There's more than one way to power the buggy! And,

2. Everyone has an opinion about how to do it, and they have their own convictions about their method based on personal experience and observation. What that means is, we're all "sidewalk superintendents" as far as Chuk is concerned.

Chuk will make his own decision based on his experience and conviction--and I will respect that even if it doesn't turn out to be the "best" solution. One of the most difficult things here is to create something as complex as a steam LSR vehicle, there are so many decisions to be made. Our job is to expose potential solutions for him to take advantage of--and then to keep our mouths shut if we don't agree with his decisions. Personally, I don't envy Chuk in the weight of all he has to accomplish, based upon his best choices. Let's all wish him luck and praise the results he is achieving.

Bill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2012 06:53PM by Bill Hinote.

Hey Bill,

Yep, you got it man!

Everyone "knows" what the "perfect" system is.

Chuk has a heck of a lot of ground to cover in a short time(in a manner of speaking) and maybe one of us will be able to supply him with an option that he is comfortable with. Even if we do argue and disagree with each other in the process.

In the end all that matters is the result, not the details.

Caleb Ramsby

Hello Chuk,


Chuk, have you thought of using a boiler powered turbo-charger instead? This would keep some steam running through the boiler at all times and would require a little extra boiler but might be smaller in volume than an electric run blower. I was thinking for myself of using throttled steam to run turbo-chargers.

I have been thinking of a design for a LSR also using my compound engine design.

Sorry to hear of the separation between your LSR attempt and Cyclone. I really wanted to see Harry's engine making it down the salt. It seems like it should have. What HP are you now trying to achieve for the car?? Will the car, as now built, have enough engine room for your new design? Will new gears have to be cut? lots of questions.


Wishing you and the LSR project the very best as well as Harry and the Cyclone project the very best.

Best Regards,

Bill G.

Hi Bill!

It's been a long time since I've seen you on the Forum! I have considered using a turbo as a blower, but don't have a lot of time to develop the idea right now. I'm going to go with a 12v or 24v blower that'll put out enough juice to do the job-I've been busy on other things, but will get to it in time.

There is enough room in the vehicle to fit the new steamplant, but it's taking quite a bit of work to do the job. I'm lucky that I had the engine and steam generator already...otherwise I wouldn't have a chance of making it to Speed Week in August. The new plant will give us around 110HP at 3000rpm, and if everything goes well-that'll get us to a new Record!

Cheers---Chuk

Hello Chuk,

It sounds like you might be using the engine out of the dragster? I do have that old powerhead that Harry gave me if you want it, the 2 cycle V-4. 110 HP isn't much compared to what the Cyclone was going to be, but it should give you some joy out on the salt. I am thinking that one of the more important things for the future LSR is to get a really good measurement of the drag coefficient. I would do this by using a torque meter on the drive axle to see how much thrust you are getting on the tires at a set speed.

I have kicked around a preliminary design of a LSR engine using the Cyclone type of arrangement in a multiple radial design. Anyway it uses a spider bearing system, so it would be considered a Cyclone engine. The horsepower is fantastic and I am thinking if developed it would make a great unlimited hydroplane engine. I would like to discuss this with you when the time gets closer for a try at 300 mph.

Right now I am looking at a good way to move the 2" dia valves at 9k rpm without tearing them apart.

Best Regards,

Bill G.

Bill-

Yes, that is the plan-to use the engine out of the Dragster...as well as the steam generator that I built for it. It will put out approx the same HP as the MK5 Cyclone was supposed to generate, so we should have a good chance at the Record.

Of course, the big difference is that I built the Streamliner to fit the MK5 powerplant, and using this one entails a "bit" of adaptation. I've had to design and build a new burner for the steam generator too, so things are progressing somewhat slower than I would like.

When we get to the Salt and get a few runs under our belt, we'll be able to get a more accurate feel for how the machine is going to perform in the future with a bigger steamplant. I plan to have video cams recording all the important data, so afterwards we can look back and see how well things actually performed.

It's going to be a fun learning experience!!


Cheers--Chuk

Chuk, I assume you've looked at the most obvious blower solution - a squirrel cage. (This may have been thrashed out in old posts, but as you were going to use a Cyclone engine until recently, maybe not.) The one on my Stanley runs on 12 volts and pushes a lot of air. No pressure, of course, but I don't see that you need pressure - volume is what you want. Mine puts enough air into the burner to create a pretty good inferno.

Ian

Ian-

I do need a bit of pressure for the type burner I'm using. It's a post-mix vaporizing type, and I need 6-8 inches of W.P to get a good mix of the air and fuel.

So far, I'm using the same blower set-up that I had on the Dragster-which is a combination of a hi-pressure axial flow blower and a hi-volume squirrel cage hooked together in series. The combination is working well and may be all I need for the immediate future, but it is a bit bulky and heavy.

When we go with a bigger steamplant in the future, a good hi-pressure/volume blower is one of the important pieces that is going to be needed...



Cheers--Chuk

Hi Chuk.

I only saw a squirrel cage on your car at the Danvill meet. Did you change after that or did I miss the axial blower?

Anyway I would like to see the setup. It's backword to the norm. Usually the squirrel cage type generates more pressure and the axial high flow.

I would like to use an axial type on my boiler. The axial can generally move a higher volume.

Gas powered back pack leaf blower? Or an electric leaf blower hooked to an inverted and speed controller? There are also 20 volt rechargeable leaf blowers, they are only 170 cfm but maybe a pair of them would work? They only cost 40.00 on amazon and weigh 3.4 lbs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2012 08:19PM by DFlowers.

A fresh mention today on a general technology website -

[www.gizmag.com]

Does this mean there are 2 parallel attempts on the record?

Actually, I know of about 6 different attempts, of widely varying credibility--including both Chuk and Harry. Naturally, as a group dedicated to preserving the history and promoting the future of steam automobiles, we wish everyone the best of luck because light steam technology can only benefit from ongoing development and free competition. While everyone can back their own personal favorites, SACA is (naturally) non-partisan (not enough of that every 4 years) and hopefully website discussion will focus on the projects themselves.

OK, ok, so far no one has made any posts in questionable taste....I just want to keep it that way because I worry endlessly and it is a pain to edit posts afterwards. I'd take it as a personal favor if we all keep our enthusiasms in check to the degree that we respect each team, avoid posts favoring one over the other and avoid asking questions that would put any team in the position of having to comment on another team.. I've seen more trouble start innocently enough that way.....

Sorry to barge in and give a lecture, but being a moderator means having to be the bad guy every now and the, the fact that I'm a natural for the part is purely coincidental!
Regards,

Ken



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 02:05PM by frustrated.

Does that "6 different attempts" that you know about include the ones from the UK? What, you didn't know that we had some new land speed steam projects being worked on over here? Well I know of one so I had better keep quite then......

Nick

Hi Nick,

Now I know of at least 7 attempts of varying credibility. Some are more believable than others based on resources, determination .....or familiarity with the laws of physics....

Regards,

Ken

Here is what I know about LSR interest: Besides Harry and Chuk, who are both in the club and both making a serious record attempt, I have talked to one person and been in email communication with two others who have expressed an interest in making a record steam attempt. I always invite them to join the club, to come and visit my shop, and to let me wind coils for them because I would rather wind coils than eat. So far I think one has joined the club. Making a successful speed run involves some combination of money, vehicle experience, steam knowledge, and enthusiasm. So far, and I hope no one is too sensitive, I have seen mostly enthusiasm. That is a starting place. In moments of optimism I have suggested that everyone up the record by 10 mph each year so that we can get about 20 years of headlines and thus free publicity for steam and our club. So far not one person has even been polite in responding to this suggestion. It appears that people are naturally competitive. None of the three people I am in communication with have a steam engine or even a good steam engine idea. Here, again, I hope we are not dealing with sensitive people. Tom Kimmel

Hi Tom,
So you love to wind coils do you? Well I have a nice job for you, a new set for Doble E-19 including the helical coil. We can ship the old one to you and you install new coils in the liner, or just wind new coils. 24" OD and very definite spacing too, and pressure test to 5,000 psi. Low carbon for the bottom ten coils and fully annealed 4130 for the top three and the helical coil. Be warned, the top three coils and the helical are 1/4" wall. The quartz thermostat probably can be used again. Who supplies the new tubing? I have/had a good source in L.A. who can anneal the 4130 in 21' lengths.
Talk to you about this when you next visit, then you can see the old ones.

As to new LSR steamers, take the good intentions for what they are, expressions of getting involved in a really interesting project. Then find out: What engine, if there is one in mind or not, what steam generator, what chassis and body and the BIG one, "How much money do you have and will your wife let you spend it??"
If there really is anyone besides Chuk and Harry, it sure would be interesting to know who and what car.

Unless it has changed, when we ran you had to up the existing record by 10% to get a new one on the books. The old Stanley record was 127.656 + 12.7 = 140.356, so we beat it by a bit at 145.607 mph..
Now, a couple of friends of mine keep bugging me about this, so someone find out what is real.
My car was timed at the required two way mile runs, despite what some "experts" said, at 145.607 mph, so factor in the 10% which now comes to: 145.607 + 14.56 = 160.167 mph. That British car did the mile at 148.308 mph. The difference being 2.701 mph. If the Bonneville rule still stands, they should have gone 160.167 mph or more. 148.308 is not fast enough to officially set the mile record at Bonneville if that rule is still in force. If not then they hold the record for the mile,
Then the question, was that the average of the required two way run or did it only do a one way run? And, who's timing was used? The Bonneville timing is accepted; but the British car ran at Edwards Air Force Base and not Bonneville if memory serves. They also claim to be the first to break the Stanley record of 1906; but that is stretching the truth a bit too far, our car did that officially at Bonneville. Even Howard Hughes was supposed to have been timed in Texas by some friends of his of the State Police at 133 mph in Doble E-20. Since the record is to be challenged again, let's just keep things honest, shall we.

Then consider mine cost overall $47,000.00 while good information from England was that including the donated stuff, they spent a Million Pounds. One usually quite reliable source said it really was 10 Million Pounds; but I find it hard to believer the car cost that much. That would be ridiculous.
Not that it makes one iota of difference now, so I hope the new Cyclone car does go over 200 mph average on the two way run, then that is what anyone else has to beat.
As Tom speculated, what fun if there really are seven steam cars being built to attack the record. This I want to see.
Jim



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2012 02:27AM by Jim Crank.

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Tiller steering small.jpg	137.5 KB	open | download	Rolly	05/05/2012	Read message
Glenn Curtiss,,1907 run of 137+- mph.jpg	46.8 KB	open | download	Rolly	05/05/2012	Read message
IMG_2529 (1280x960).jpg	635.3 KB	open | download	chuk williams	05/12/2013	Read message
100_4285.JPG	344.1 KB	open | download	Jeremy Holmes	06/03/2013	Read message
100_4287.JPG	432.4 KB	open | download	Jeremy Holmes	06/03/2013	Read message
IMG_2584 (1024x768).jpg	676.3 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/11/2013	Read message
IMG_2576 (1024x768).jpg	644.9 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/11/2013	Read message
IMG_2577 (1024x768).jpg	496.5 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/11/2013	Read message
IMG_2600 (1024x768).jpg	661.8 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/11/2013	Read message
IMG_2688 (1280x960).jpg	597.6 KB	open | download	chuk williams	10/06/2013	Read message
IMG_2690 (1280x960).jpg	671 KB	open | download	chuk williams	10/06/2013	Read message
IMG_2715 (1280x960).jpg	778.2 KB	open | download	chuk williams	10/06/2013	Read message
IMG_2717 (1280x960).jpg	746.2 KB	open | download	chuk williams	10/06/2013	Read message
IMG_2825 (1280x960).jpg	824.2 KB	open | download	chuk williams	11/05/2013	Read message
IMG_2824 (1280x960).jpg	794.6 KB	open | download	chuk williams	11/05/2013	Read message
100hp speed vs distance.gif	8.1 KB	open | download	Tim Nye	05/05/2014	Read message
100hp distance vs time.gif	8.6 KB	open | download	Tim Nye	05/05/2014	Read message
IMG_0115 (1280x720).jpg	569.3 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/01/2014	Read message
IMG_0126 (1280x720).jpg	603.2 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/01/2014	Read message
IMG_0130 (1280x720).jpg	682.2 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/01/2014	Read message
IMG_0135 (1280x720).jpg	667.7 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/01/2014	Read message
IMG_3057 (1280x960).jpg	846.2 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/16/2014	Read message
IMG_3053 (1280x960) (1024x768).jpg	653.2 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/16/2014	Read message
IMG_3054 (1280x960) (1024x768).jpg	724.9 KB	open | download	chuk williams	06/16/2014	Read message
Untitled03.JPG	41.4 KB	open | download	Rolly	07/09/2014	Read message
crank through. .jpg	28.8 KB	open | download	Rolly	07/09/2014	Read message
IMG_0016c.JPG	752.4 KB	open | download	Tim Nye	08/09/2014	Read message
IMG_0017c.JPG	923.8 KB	open | download	Tim Nye	08/09/2014	Read message
IMG_3123 (1280x960).jpg	854.9 KB	open | download	chuk williams	08/24/2014	Read message
IMG_3120 (1280x960).jpg	629.8 KB	open | download	chuk williams	08/24/2014	Read message
IMG_3122 (1280x960).jpg	687.6 KB	open | download	chuk williams	08/24/2014	Read message
DSCN2906.JPG	453.8 KB	open | download	chuk williams	09/27/2014	Read message
DSCN2905.JPG	462.7 KB	open | download	chuk williams	09/27/2014	Read message
SSA At 145.jpg	326.4 KB	open | download	chuk williams	10/01/2014	Read message
SSA At 147 mph.jpg	324.5 KB	open | download	chuk williams	10/01/2014	Read message