US Land Steam Record!!
Posted by chuk williams
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! November 06, 2013 05:26PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! November 06, 2013 09:23PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 101 |
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! December 29, 2013 10:57AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Happy Holidays Everyone!
This year has been quite a “big” year in the life of the STEAMSPEEDAMERICA project. We’ve progressed from a bare-bones machine- running without a body at Bonneville in October 2012-to fielding a real streamliner at the Ohio Mile. Granted, our performance at the Mile event wasn’t impressive-but then we weren’t expecting much from such a short track.
The construction of the body consumed a large portion of the time available for the Project this year, and is the real reason we didn’t have enough time to resolve our other problems in time to attend Speed Week. However, the extra time spent on building it gave me a body that is true to my design-and a vehicle that will take us to 200+MPH-safely!
The cancellation of the October World Finals was a real disappointment-but how can one complain about the weather-without feeling silly? We had really pushed to make it to Speed Week in August, but some of the development problems revealed by our dyno tests just couldn’t be rectified in time. We had pre-registered for the event, but luckily, were able to sell our slot and retrieve our registration fee. Tom Stoecker and Nick Mesmer made the long trip down to Florida to help with their expertise, and that made it possible to get the vehicle ready to run at Bonneville in October. Fortunately, we were in a position to make it to the Ohio Mile Event after the cancellation of the World Finals, and that gave the Team a chance to run the car and have some fun. Of course, we also learned a bit more about how to run the vehicle, as well as exposed a few more things that we can improve before we run again in August 2014.
Perhaps I should mention again-all of this progress wouldn’t be possible without the support of everyone who has contributed to the Project. Almost all of the support has come from this Club-SACA. I feel very fortunate that you all have shared my dream and given your time, effort, and dollars to make it happen. That takes a quite a bit of faith, hope, and charity on your part-I am humbled by your help.
Our Team is looking forward to 2014-with your continued support-this could be the year we bring the Land Steam Record back to the USA!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
This year has been quite a “big” year in the life of the STEAMSPEEDAMERICA project. We’ve progressed from a bare-bones machine- running without a body at Bonneville in October 2012-to fielding a real streamliner at the Ohio Mile. Granted, our performance at the Mile event wasn’t impressive-but then we weren’t expecting much from such a short track.
The construction of the body consumed a large portion of the time available for the Project this year, and is the real reason we didn’t have enough time to resolve our other problems in time to attend Speed Week. However, the extra time spent on building it gave me a body that is true to my design-and a vehicle that will take us to 200+MPH-safely!
The cancellation of the October World Finals was a real disappointment-but how can one complain about the weather-without feeling silly? We had really pushed to make it to Speed Week in August, but some of the development problems revealed by our dyno tests just couldn’t be rectified in time. We had pre-registered for the event, but luckily, were able to sell our slot and retrieve our registration fee. Tom Stoecker and Nick Mesmer made the long trip down to Florida to help with their expertise, and that made it possible to get the vehicle ready to run at Bonneville in October. Fortunately, we were in a position to make it to the Ohio Mile Event after the cancellation of the World Finals, and that gave the Team a chance to run the car and have some fun. Of course, we also learned a bit more about how to run the vehicle, as well as exposed a few more things that we can improve before we run again in August 2014.
Perhaps I should mention again-all of this progress wouldn’t be possible without the support of everyone who has contributed to the Project. Almost all of the support has come from this Club-SACA. I feel very fortunate that you all have shared my dream and given your time, effort, and dollars to make it happen. That takes a quite a bit of faith, hope, and charity on your part-I am humbled by your help.
Our Team is looking forward to 2014-with your continued support-this could be the year we bring the Land Steam Record back to the USA!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! December 30, 2013 12:59AM |
Admin Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 531 |
There is a down side to racing a steam car on ice. The wind chill takes quite a bit out of the boiler's evaporization ability. When it is 25 degrees F. outside, our 1914 Stanley roadster labors to get over 50 MPH. When it is 75 dgrees F. outside, 65 MPH is easily attained. Putting the top down and folding the windshield back will give me another 5 MPH. I once drove it for 5 miles at 70 MPH. I don't do that anymore as it beats my engine up pretty good. The warmer the day, the faster it will go. Another thought is the cold heavy air is denser than the hot thinner air. A higher speed can be pushed through the hotter thinner air which has less drag.
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 04, 2014 01:39PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Hey!
Time is passing and we’re preparing the Streamliner to run at Speed Week-August 9th-15th! Both the engine and the steam generator have been removed, the little bits of rust that came back after last years’ major cleanup have been taken care of, and things are starting to go back together.
The steam generator has been split apart, the burner refurbed and the coil stack hydroed to 1500psi. We ran the burner out in the open-separated from the coil stack-and burned fuel at the rate of 30 gph. After bolting it all back together, we did a few runs at the reduced rate of 24-25gph. Everything looks good with the generator, and it should give us all the steam we need.
The new clutch that I bought last fall-to replace the failed one-didn’t fit…so I had to go to some lengths to find one that will do the job. It’s installed and the engine is sitting back in place on its’ mounts, but it looks like I’m going to have to modify the explosion housing around the clutch a bit-the new pressure plate is slightly thicker than the original. I expect to have the engine back in with everything buttoned up and ready to run this week or next.
Meanwhile, Don Beck has been working on controls for the steam generator. As you all know, it’s tough to control a monotube generator. We’ve had our ups and downs with the steam temperature control-mostly because we’ve relied a bit on the drivers’ manual control-which can be somewhat lacking as he drives down the track! With Don’s new microcomputer controls we’re going to eliminate some of those problems.
As soon as we’re ready, we’ll get to the job of running the steam plant on the dyno. That will load it and simulate the conditions we expect at Bonneville, so we can integrate the new controls into the system.
As I’ve mentioned in the past-hopefully lots of our friends and supporters will be able to join us at Bonneville in August. The joy of seeing all those machines-up close and personal-offsets any discomfort that you may have with the heat! There will be in excess of 500 vehicles running this year, some of them running well above 400 mph. There are at least 2 vehicles entered that will be trying for the 500+ mark!
Thanks again-everyone-for your continued support!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
Time is passing and we’re preparing the Streamliner to run at Speed Week-August 9th-15th! Both the engine and the steam generator have been removed, the little bits of rust that came back after last years’ major cleanup have been taken care of, and things are starting to go back together.
The steam generator has been split apart, the burner refurbed and the coil stack hydroed to 1500psi. We ran the burner out in the open-separated from the coil stack-and burned fuel at the rate of 30 gph. After bolting it all back together, we did a few runs at the reduced rate of 24-25gph. Everything looks good with the generator, and it should give us all the steam we need.
The new clutch that I bought last fall-to replace the failed one-didn’t fit…so I had to go to some lengths to find one that will do the job. It’s installed and the engine is sitting back in place on its’ mounts, but it looks like I’m going to have to modify the explosion housing around the clutch a bit-the new pressure plate is slightly thicker than the original. I expect to have the engine back in with everything buttoned up and ready to run this week or next.
Meanwhile, Don Beck has been working on controls for the steam generator. As you all know, it’s tough to control a monotube generator. We’ve had our ups and downs with the steam temperature control-mostly because we’ve relied a bit on the drivers’ manual control-which can be somewhat lacking as he drives down the track! With Don’s new microcomputer controls we’re going to eliminate some of those problems.
As soon as we’re ready, we’ll get to the job of running the steam plant on the dyno. That will load it and simulate the conditions we expect at Bonneville, so we can integrate the new controls into the system.
As I’ve mentioned in the past-hopefully lots of our friends and supporters will be able to join us at Bonneville in August. The joy of seeing all those machines-up close and personal-offsets any discomfort that you may have with the heat! There will be in excess of 500 vehicles running this year, some of them running well above 400 mph. There are at least 2 vehicles entered that will be trying for the 500+ mark!
Thanks again-everyone-for your continued support!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 05, 2014 02:28PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 35 |
Hi Chuk,
Sounds like things are progressing well.
As an aside, there won't be a challenge this year from my engineering students. (Long story for later.)
Anyway, I was just pencilling some numbers to see what might happen on a 5 mile course.
Here's a bunch of assumptions for an LSR car:
Given that, here's the predicted speed:
The time vs distance is:
Now the numbers in the calculation are just guesses, but it looks very promising.
The biggest unknown is the coefficient of drag. Changing it from 0.15 to 0.2 drops speed at mile 5 from 210 to 192 mph. The current Toyota Prius is supposed to be 0.25, and yours will be much better than it.
70 wheel horsepower gets to 148 mph at mile 3, coincidentally enough.
Tim
Sounds like things are progressing well.
As an aside, there won't be a challenge this year from my engineering students. (Long story for later.)
Anyway, I was just pencilling some numbers to see what might happen on a 5 mile course.
Here's a bunch of assumptions for an LSR car:
- 100 rear wheel horsepower at max engine rpm
- Engine torque constant from 0 to max rpm
- Fixed drive ratio
- Push start to 20 mph
- Weight = 1600 lbs, with 50% on rear axle
- Traction coefficient on salt of 0.5
- Rolling resistance coefficient of 0.015
- Drag coefficient = 0.15
- Frontal area = 9 square feet (3 ft high x 3 ft wide)
- Air density of 85% of sea level
Given that, here's the predicted speed:
The time vs distance is:
Now the numbers in the calculation are just guesses, but it looks very promising.
The biggest unknown is the coefficient of drag. Changing it from 0.15 to 0.2 drops speed at mile 5 from 210 to 192 mph. The current Toyota Prius is supposed to be 0.25, and yours will be much better than it.
70 wheel horsepower gets to 148 mph at mile 3, coincidentally enough.
Tim
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 05, 2014 04:36PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Hey Tim!
Tis good to hear from you! Your numbers correspond pretty closely to our chief engineers'. There are a few elements of your computation that might be a bit off-the approx weight of our vehicle is "around" 2000 lbs, the rear wheel HP will probably be a bit less than 100, due to the drive train losses-and lastly-the push we get usually gets the vehicle up to around 40 mph.
If things go well, we will have a good chance of setting a new record. Of course, the Brits have an FIA record-and we simply don't have the finances needed to get that one-yet!
Nevertheless, we'll be very satisfied if we go faster than anyone has ever gone in a steam car!
Are you going to join us for the fun on the salt?
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
Tis good to hear from you! Your numbers correspond pretty closely to our chief engineers'. There are a few elements of your computation that might be a bit off-the approx weight of our vehicle is "around" 2000 lbs, the rear wheel HP will probably be a bit less than 100, due to the drive train losses-and lastly-the push we get usually gets the vehicle up to around 40 mph.
If things go well, we will have a good chance of setting a new record. Of course, the Brits have an FIA record-and we simply don't have the finances needed to get that one-yet!
Nevertheless, we'll be very satisfied if we go faster than anyone has ever gone in a steam car!
Are you going to join us for the fun on the salt?
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 06, 2014 02:16PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,441 |
Chuk,
Tim's numbers look very good. You can push to whatever speed you want, we did 40-55 mph.
Much depends on how wet the salt is; but the current predictions are that it will be on the dry side, so hopeing that traction is not any problem this year.
With your fuel burn rate you should indeed break the record by a good margin. I trust you have run the car for a good length of time on a chassis dyno to be sure the steam generation is enough and stable with full throttle.
Just what is the FIA fee during their Speed Week? We were told it is much less than an individual attempt as the certified timing is already there.
Then again just how important is the FIA anyhow? Considering what a mess they made out of Formula One, do they really matter? The fastest speed is the fastest speed and that is all that matters.
Seems you don't need to concern yourself about the other Bonneville car, their engine doesn't work according to good sources.
Wishing you all the luck in the world and do get good video coverage and not via U-Tube, they really mess things up.
Jim
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 03:31PM by Jim Crank.
Tim's numbers look very good. You can push to whatever speed you want, we did 40-55 mph.
Much depends on how wet the salt is; but the current predictions are that it will be on the dry side, so hopeing that traction is not any problem this year.
With your fuel burn rate you should indeed break the record by a good margin. I trust you have run the car for a good length of time on a chassis dyno to be sure the steam generation is enough and stable with full throttle.
Just what is the FIA fee during their Speed Week? We were told it is much less than an individual attempt as the certified timing is already there.
Then again just how important is the FIA anyhow? Considering what a mess they made out of Formula One, do they really matter? The fastest speed is the fastest speed and that is all that matters.
Seems you don't need to concern yourself about the other Bonneville car, their engine doesn't work according to good sources.
Wishing you all the luck in the world and do get good video coverage and not via U-Tube, they really mess things up.
Jim
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 03:31PM by Jim Crank.
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 06, 2014 03:52PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 375 |
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 06, 2014 06:34PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Jim-
Thanks for your support! Yes-hopefully this year the weather will be better, and the salt conditions will benefit. The SCTA officials told me that last years' Speed Week had marginal salt conditions, and then afterwards it rained more-which led to the cancellation of the October World Finals. When the salt gets sticky-the "goin gets tough"!
Regarding the costs involved with the Mike Cook Shootout-which usually happens in September-I've heard numbers ranging from $5,000-10,000 per entry. Perhaps that's not too bad for a chance at getting an FIA Record, but my budget even chokes a bit on the $525 entry fee for Speed Week!
I agree with you-I'm not hung up on an FIA Record-the SCTA does a good job of timing their events, and their records are recognized worldwide. The FIA has been around since the beginning of speed events, but time passes.....like I said-I'll be happy if my machine can go faster than any other steam powered vehicle has ever gone!!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
Thanks for your support! Yes-hopefully this year the weather will be better, and the salt conditions will benefit. The SCTA officials told me that last years' Speed Week had marginal salt conditions, and then afterwards it rained more-which led to the cancellation of the October World Finals. When the salt gets sticky-the "goin gets tough"!
Regarding the costs involved with the Mike Cook Shootout-which usually happens in September-I've heard numbers ranging from $5,000-10,000 per entry. Perhaps that's not too bad for a chance at getting an FIA Record, but my budget even chokes a bit on the $525 entry fee for Speed Week!
I agree with you-I'm not hung up on an FIA Record-the SCTA does a good job of timing their events, and their records are recognized worldwide. The FIA has been around since the beginning of speed events, but time passes.....like I said-I'll be happy if my machine can go faster than any other steam powered vehicle has ever gone!!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 06, 2014 06:51PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,441 |
Chuk,
It will, don't worry. Just take along every spare part you think you even might need, times two.
On our first trip to Bonneville, the windshield cracked in the trailer going up. Try to find a Lamborghini Mura windshield in Wendover, or Salt Lake City then. Hell, they didn't even know what a Lambo was!!
Good old lexan saved the day made in the motel parking lot.
Jim
It will, don't worry. Just take along every spare part you think you even might need, times two.
On our first trip to Bonneville, the windshield cracked in the trailer going up. Try to find a Lamborghini Mura windshield in Wendover, or Salt Lake City then. Hell, they didn't even know what a Lambo was!!
Good old lexan saved the day made in the motel parking lot.
Jim
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 06, 2014 06:56PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 35 |
Hi Chuk,
The thought of Tom Kimmel in a truck barrelling down on you at 40 mph was just too scary to think about... (Hi Tom!
)
If I can stick my nose in, have you looked at roller chain instead of timing belts for the driveline? It seems to me you had two timing belts in series. They're about 95% efficient, giving 95x95 = 90% overall. Chain is about 98% efficient, giving 98x98 = 96%. That difference might be worth 10 mph.
#530 motorcycle chain runs on standard ANSI #50 sprockets and will easily tolerate the loads and speeds. You'd want chain guards of about 1/8" steel, but they're easy to fabricate.
It would be a blast to join you at Bonneville. (That is, if Steam Speed America can tolerate a damned foreigner.
) Better start preparing my wife....
Tim
The thought of Tom Kimmel in a truck barrelling down on you at 40 mph was just too scary to think about... (Hi Tom!
)
If I can stick my nose in, have you looked at roller chain instead of timing belts for the driveline? It seems to me you had two timing belts in series. They're about 95% efficient, giving 95x95 = 90% overall. Chain is about 98% efficient, giving 98x98 = 96%. That difference might be worth 10 mph.
#530 motorcycle chain runs on standard ANSI #50 sprockets and will easily tolerate the loads and speeds. You'd want chain guards of about 1/8" steel, but they're easy to fabricate.
It would be a blast to join you at Bonneville. (That is, if Steam Speed America can tolerate a damned foreigner.
) Better start preparing my wife....
Tim
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 07, 2014 07:13AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Tim-
We're using roller chain-for the power take off from the engine to a jack shaft, and from there to the axle we're using an industrial toothed belt. The run from the jack shaft to the rear axle is a bit too long for chain-without the use of an idler, etc. The toothed belt is doing a good job, and is maintenance-free.
Today I'm finishing up the explosion housing mods for the new clutch. The engine is ready to be re-installed, so in a few days we should be ready to do some running tests.
We will welcome you at Bonneville-anyone who's interested in steam(even those who are foreigners or just tire-kickers!) are welcome in our camp!
Off to the shop!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
We're using roller chain-for the power take off from the engine to a jack shaft, and from there to the axle we're using an industrial toothed belt. The run from the jack shaft to the rear axle is a bit too long for chain-without the use of an idler, etc. The toothed belt is doing a good job, and is maintenance-free.
Today I'm finishing up the explosion housing mods for the new clutch. The engine is ready to be re-installed, so in a few days we should be ready to do some running tests.
We will welcome you at Bonneville-anyone who's interested in steam(even those who are foreigners or just tire-kickers!) are welcome in our camp!
Off to the shop!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 07, 2014 03:00PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 375 |
The old BritishFrazer Nash cars of the 20's and 30's used chain drive transmission with dog engaged sprockets on a countershaft to give four "gears", connecting to the solid (without differential) back axle. It worked for them but it is always said that about 120mph was the maximum that it could take and the chain was being used so far beyond its rating that is shouldn't have worked. It did but it is a high maintenance set up.
Parry Thomas' land speed record car "Babs" was an adapted pre WW1 chain drive Mercedes fitted with a Liberty engine. It did achieve 170mph but crashed, killing Thomas. I don't think the cause of the crash was ever determined but a chain had broken.
Chains are subject to centrifugal force in addition to the working load and I suspect this is what limits the speed.
Mike
Parry Thomas' land speed record car "Babs" was an adapted pre WW1 chain drive Mercedes fitted with a Liberty engine. It did achieve 170mph but crashed, killing Thomas. I don't think the cause of the crash was ever determined but a chain had broken.
Chains are subject to centrifugal force in addition to the working load and I suspect this is what limits the speed.
Mike
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 07, 2014 04:08PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 35 |
Hi Mike,
I think they've got the problems with motorcycle chain licked. The Ack Attack streamliner bike has done a pass at 394 mph. It uses two drive chains, one on each side of the rear wheel, but then they claim each of the two engines puts out 900 hp. They use #530 chain. Now granted it's going to be the best racing chain you can buy, but pictures of their bike don't show any shields around the chains at all.
Sport bikes like the Suzuki Hayabusa and Kawasaki Ninja have electronic speed limiters keeping them down to 186 mph and those are just production bikes off the showroom floor. Other than a plastic deflecter to keep slung oil off the rider they don't seem to have any kind of shield around the chain.
I agree with you though -- even though the motorcycle guys don't feel the need for ballistic sheilds around rollerchain, I'd feel a whole lot better if there was something to stop it if it got loose.
Tim
I think they've got the problems with motorcycle chain licked. The Ack Attack streamliner bike has done a pass at 394 mph. It uses two drive chains, one on each side of the rear wheel, but then they claim each of the two engines puts out 900 hp. They use #530 chain. Now granted it's going to be the best racing chain you can buy, but pictures of their bike don't show any shields around the chains at all.
Sport bikes like the Suzuki Hayabusa and Kawasaki Ninja have electronic speed limiters keeping them down to 186 mph and those are just production bikes off the showroom floor. Other than a plastic deflecter to keep slung oil off the rider they don't seem to have any kind of shield around the chain.
I agree with you though -- even though the motorcycle guys don't feel the need for ballistic sheilds around rollerchain, I'd feel a whole lot better if there was something to stop it if it got loose.
Tim
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 07, 2014 04:24PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 375 |
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! May 08, 2014 04:42PM |
Admin Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 531 |
Tim Nye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
..... Other than a
> plastic deflecter to keep slung oil off the rider
> they don't seem to have any kind of shield around
> the chain.
>
> I agree with you though -- even though the
> motorcycle guys don't feel the need for ballistic
> sheilds around rollerchain, I'd feel a whole lot
> better if there was something to stop it if it got
> loose.
>
> Tim
With a roller chain, when it breaks, if it is confined, it is going to immediately jam its self stopping everything with great collateral damage. No more that a nylon chain guide should confine its path. A guard to keep people safe from entry, or to keep them safe from a flying chain is a good idea. The location of the driving sprocket pretty well determines where the broken chain will feed off to. But give the broken chain a place to exit to area. Exit to the ground has always been the first choice.
-------------------------------------------------------
..... Other than a
> plastic deflecter to keep slung oil off the rider
> they don't seem to have any kind of shield around
> the chain.
>
> I agree with you though -- even though the
> motorcycle guys don't feel the need for ballistic
> sheilds around rollerchain, I'd feel a whole lot
> better if there was something to stop it if it got
> loose.
>
> Tim
With a roller chain, when it breaks, if it is confined, it is going to immediately jam its self stopping everything with great collateral damage. No more that a nylon chain guide should confine its path. A guard to keep people safe from entry, or to keep them safe from a flying chain is a good idea. The location of the driving sprocket pretty well determines where the broken chain will feed off to. But give the broken chain a place to exit to area. Exit to the ground has always been the first choice.
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! June 01, 2014 08:06PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Hey Everybody!
We’ve had a meltdown! Literally…yesterday afternoon during a test run on the dyno, I had a malfunction which resulted in a serious steam generator meltdown. I was running the streamliner power plant on the dyno –had just started the engine, and noticed that the steam pressure was low-looked back at the generator and saw a flash of clear blue flame about 2 feet long come out the stack! I shut off the fuel, jumped back to check it and saw fire start to come out the bottom of the generator. I hit it with the big CO2 extinguisher-which had no visible effect. The interior of the generator was glowing red when I looked down the stack, so I turned on the water hose and stuffed it down in the stack to spray on the coils. That killed the fire, but not before it had done some real damage.
Obviously something had gone wrong some time before I noticed, otherwise it would have simply overheated. Of course, the fuel rate was running at about 25 gph-so it doesn’t take long to go nuts! I checked the FW flow immediately afterward, and everything looked right. Amazingly-the coil immediately in front of the fire was relatively undamaged! But behind it-when I looked thru the coil-was a void where the other 6 black iron coils used to live. The copper finned coils suffered badly also, as you can see in the attached photos.
This is a huge setback, and it may keep us from-once again-making it to Speed Week in August. There is not a single coil in the generator that can be reused as we rebuild. I’m pushing ahead with plans to rebuild as soon as possible-the unknown here is the quick availability of finned coils. Finned tubing was hard to find when I originally built the generator, and also had a quite a bit of lead time before I could get it.
We’ll see how it goes…I’m pretty disheartened right now. Tomorrow I’ll get out there and see what’s available-I’ll keep you all informed.
If it can be done-we'll still make it to Bonneville for Speed Week!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
We’ve had a meltdown! Literally…yesterday afternoon during a test run on the dyno, I had a malfunction which resulted in a serious steam generator meltdown. I was running the streamliner power plant on the dyno –had just started the engine, and noticed that the steam pressure was low-looked back at the generator and saw a flash of clear blue flame about 2 feet long come out the stack! I shut off the fuel, jumped back to check it and saw fire start to come out the bottom of the generator. I hit it with the big CO2 extinguisher-which had no visible effect. The interior of the generator was glowing red when I looked down the stack, so I turned on the water hose and stuffed it down in the stack to spray on the coils. That killed the fire, but not before it had done some real damage.
Obviously something had gone wrong some time before I noticed, otherwise it would have simply overheated. Of course, the fuel rate was running at about 25 gph-so it doesn’t take long to go nuts! I checked the FW flow immediately afterward, and everything looked right. Amazingly-the coil immediately in front of the fire was relatively undamaged! But behind it-when I looked thru the coil-was a void where the other 6 black iron coils used to live. The copper finned coils suffered badly also, as you can see in the attached photos.
This is a huge setback, and it may keep us from-once again-making it to Speed Week in August. There is not a single coil in the generator that can be reused as we rebuild. I’m pushing ahead with plans to rebuild as soon as possible-the unknown here is the quick availability of finned coils. Finned tubing was hard to find when I originally built the generator, and also had a quite a bit of lead time before I could get it.
We’ll see how it goes…I’m pretty disheartened right now. Tomorrow I’ll get out there and see what’s available-I’ll keep you all informed.
If it can be done-we'll still make it to Bonneville for Speed Week!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! June 01, 2014 09:24PM |
Admin Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 416 |
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! June 01, 2014 10:56PM |
Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 152 |
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! June 03, 2014 09:25AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Thanks Guys!
I appreciate the concern-there was never any danger to me-just the generator! I was able to find the needed amount of finned tubing, with a delivery date 2 weeks from now-so we're off and running. Tom K is going to expedite the creation of the 3/8 pipe pancake coils for us, so-hopefully-I'll be able to have them ready to install by the time the finned tubing gets here. The generator case and all the control tubing, etc, is reusable-so we're ahead of the game there.
It's gonna take a bit of unforeseen extra work to get back to where we were before this accident, but with the chance to make a few upgrades to the unit while it's being rebuilt-we'll be in better shape when everything's done.
There WILL be a feedwater flow switch controlling the main fuel pump from now on!!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
I appreciate the concern-there was never any danger to me-just the generator! I was able to find the needed amount of finned tubing, with a delivery date 2 weeks from now-so we're off and running. Tom K is going to expedite the creation of the 3/8 pipe pancake coils for us, so-hopefully-I'll be able to have them ready to install by the time the finned tubing gets here. The generator case and all the control tubing, etc, is reusable-so we're ahead of the game there.
It's gonna take a bit of unforeseen extra work to get back to where we were before this accident, but with the chance to make a few upgrades to the unit while it's being rebuilt-we'll be in better shape when everything's done.
There WILL be a feedwater flow switch controlling the main fuel pump from now on!!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! June 16, 2014 08:02AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Hey-
Things are moving along here! The smooth tubing pancakes are assembled and pressure tested-and the finned tubing arrives today. By the end of this week, the steam generator should be well on its way to being back together and ready to run. The finned tubing is relatively easily rolled into pancakes, so they won't take too long-it's the assembly of the insulation, the case around the generator, and adapting it to fit the new coil stack that will take the most time.
Tom Kimmel and his shop crew did a very quick professional job of creating the smooth tubing pancakes and getting them to me in less than a week after the meltdown. And the company that manufactured the finned tubing was able to get it to me in less than their normal 2 week lead time-so a big "Thanks" to Tom and his crew-and to Fin Tube Products of Wadsworth, Ohio for their help.
We've got about 6 weeks left before we leave for Bonneville-lots left to do-I'm off to get it done!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
Things are moving along here! The smooth tubing pancakes are assembled and pressure tested-and the finned tubing arrives today. By the end of this week, the steam generator should be well on its way to being back together and ready to run. The finned tubing is relatively easily rolled into pancakes, so they won't take too long-it's the assembly of the insulation, the case around the generator, and adapting it to fit the new coil stack that will take the most time.
Tom Kimmel and his shop crew did a very quick professional job of creating the smooth tubing pancakes and getting them to me in less than a week after the meltdown. And the company that manufactured the finned tubing was able to get it to me in less than their normal 2 week lead time-so a big "Thanks" to Tom and his crew-and to Fin Tube Products of Wadsworth, Ohio for their help.
We've got about 6 weeks left before we leave for Bonneville-lots left to do-I'm off to get it done!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! June 16, 2014 06:42PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Hey-
The finned tubing arrived today at noon! Twas packed well-had no damage in transit, and is exactly what we need to complete the rebuild. By quitting time I had the five coils wound and bound into pancakes, so tomorrow I'll get going on putting them together for the stack.
Here's a few photos of the progress....
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
The finned tubing arrived today at noon! Twas packed well-had no damage in transit, and is exactly what we need to complete the rebuild. By quitting time I had the five coils wound and bound into pancakes, so tomorrow I'll get going on putting them together for the stack.
Here's a few photos of the progress....
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! June 17, 2014 03:17AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 375 |
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! June 17, 2014 08:02AM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Mike-
Yes, I wind the finned coils by hand on a former made of two plywood discs with a spacer in the middle. The tubing is annealed from the brazing process, so it's relatively easy to wind. The tough part of the process is keeping the coil tight until it can be bound with the wire. As the coil is wound, the fins touch each other at a slight angle, so there is no need for a spacer.
There is room in the case, so I'm adding one more finned coil to the generator-which will give us 12% more surface area. When this thing is back together, we'll essentially have a new, more efficient generator-with a feedwater flow switch in series with the main fuel pump-so there'll be no more meltdown surprises!
I'm anxious to get it back together and running-hopefully next week!!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
Yes, I wind the finned coils by hand on a former made of two plywood discs with a spacer in the middle. The tubing is annealed from the brazing process, so it's relatively easy to wind. The tough part of the process is keeping the coil tight until it can be bound with the wire. As the coil is wound, the fins touch each other at a slight angle, so there is no need for a spacer.
There is room in the case, so I'm adding one more finned coil to the generator-which will give us 12% more surface area. When this thing is back together, we'll essentially have a new, more efficient generator-with a feedwater flow switch in series with the main fuel pump-so there'll be no more meltdown surprises!
I'm anxious to get it back together and running-hopefully next week!!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! July 07, 2014 09:02PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Hey-
The latest news is good news!! But-first a bit of an update.....Last week I finished rebuilding the generator and installed it back in the vehicle. The toughest part of the rebuild was making the original case fit the rebuilt coils. I copied the originals as well as I could-but you know how that goes!
Tom Soecker and Don Beck came down on Tuesday to give me a hand with the running tests. Don had built a controller to help keep the steam temp stabilized, and we installed it-as well as the new pressure relief valve that Tom had built for the system. On Thursday we started and were warming up, and had a flame out. We were well along in the startup process, so the main fuel pump was on and running about 15-20 gph when the flameout happened-so the result was a large explosion. The explosion stripped the impeller off the blower, and did quite a bit of damage to the generator case. Friday we tore down the generator-just down to the damaged outer case-and began repairs. Saturday we finished repairing the damage, and prepared to test the burner in order to find the reason for the flameout. Sunday we ran quite a few test runs with the burner off the generator-discovered/fixed the problems-and reinstalled the burner.
Today, we moved the temp controller to the tail-where it wouldn't get so much interference from the other electronics, etc-and began our dyno tests. After getting the controller tuned in a bit-we had 4 great runs in the afternoon. The best run was an 80 hp run at 1800 rpm, the next best was almost as good.
We'll continue tomorrow...we're getting there-finally! The month of testing that the meltdown took from us has made things difficult-but we're gonna make Speed Week!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
The latest news is good news!! But-first a bit of an update.....Last week I finished rebuilding the generator and installed it back in the vehicle. The toughest part of the rebuild was making the original case fit the rebuilt coils. I copied the originals as well as I could-but you know how that goes!
Tom Soecker and Don Beck came down on Tuesday to give me a hand with the running tests. Don had built a controller to help keep the steam temp stabilized, and we installed it-as well as the new pressure relief valve that Tom had built for the system. On Thursday we started and were warming up, and had a flame out. We were well along in the startup process, so the main fuel pump was on and running about 15-20 gph when the flameout happened-so the result was a large explosion. The explosion stripped the impeller off the blower, and did quite a bit of damage to the generator case. Friday we tore down the generator-just down to the damaged outer case-and began repairs. Saturday we finished repairing the damage, and prepared to test the burner in order to find the reason for the flameout. Sunday we ran quite a few test runs with the burner off the generator-discovered/fixed the problems-and reinstalled the burner.
Today, we moved the temp controller to the tail-where it wouldn't get so much interference from the other electronics, etc-and began our dyno tests. After getting the controller tuned in a bit-we had 4 great runs in the afternoon. The best run was an 80 hp run at 1800 rpm, the next best was almost as good.
We'll continue tomorrow...we're getting there-finally! The month of testing that the meltdown took from us has made things difficult-but we're gonna make Speed Week!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! July 07, 2014 10:53PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,268 |
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! July 08, 2014 01:33PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 1,441 |
Hi Chuk,
Needless to say I certainly wish you all the luck in the world, you just have to regain the LSR for steamers.
Now, just supposing you do not break the record, what other engine do you have available to do that??
Tom has a warehouse full, is there something there you could perhaps use?
If I remember the rules when we ran, you have to break the existing record by 10%. 80-90 hp is cutting it mighty slim!!! I wouldn't worry about Delusions-R-Us, they are never going to run.
Jim
Needless to say I certainly wish you all the luck in the world, you just have to regain the LSR for steamers.
Now, just supposing you do not break the record, what other engine do you have available to do that??
Tom has a warehouse full, is there something there you could perhaps use?
If I remember the rules when we ran, you have to break the existing record by 10%. 80-90 hp is cutting it mighty slim!!! I wouldn't worry about Delusions-R-Us, they are never going to run.
Jim
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! July 08, 2014 05:17PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 6 |
Chuk,
Today I new to the Phorum.......very interesting photos of the coils. Based on your comments you are using Fin Tube's "Finbraze" variation? Their specs state up to 950 degF for this variation. Is this an all stainless construction or some other material combination?
Coming in late to the discussion, are the finned tubes used in the secondary portion of the generator and smooth tubes in the primary (hottest) section?
Thank you.
All the best and good luck!
Regards,
Randy Musselman
Today I new to the Phorum.......very interesting photos of the coils. Based on your comments you are using Fin Tube's "Finbraze" variation? Their specs state up to 950 degF for this variation. Is this an all stainless construction or some other material combination?
Coming in late to the discussion, are the finned tubes used in the secondary portion of the generator and smooth tubes in the primary (hottest) section?
Thank you.
All the best and good luck!
Regards,
Randy Musselman
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Re: US Land Steam Record!! July 08, 2014 08:02PM |
Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 338 |
Hey-
The steam plant combination we're using will give us 100 hp at 2400 rpm. As I mentioned, the other day we saw 80 hp at 1800 rpm on the dyno, so we will be fine-IF(big IF!) we can get the same performance at B'ville. Of course we lose approximately 18% at B'ville-due to the density altitude change at that elevation-so we've concentrated on getting our fuel burn rate up enough to compensate for that loss. If all our consulting engineers are right, a drag coefficient of .2 or less and 100 hp will get us to 170+ mph.
Tom Kimmel has graciously offered us the use of one of his engines if we decide to go that way in the future. I feel that the combination we have is a good one for the present-if this one doesn't do the job-we'll go with a bit more power. Back in 2003, I bought a Bryan engine just for that purpose-so that could be a possibility. Of course, the engine is a vital part of the plant-but the steam generator is the real basis for the power that comes out of the engine-and for big engines we're gonna need a big generator!
Randy-regarding your question-yes I'm using the Finbraze tubing provided by the Fin Tube people. It's 3/8 S/S tubing with copper fins-8 per inch. The finned tubing is used in the cooler part of the coil stack, with the smooth steel tubing used in the superheater section.
Thanks-guys-for the continuing support and ideas-that really helps!!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
The steam plant combination we're using will give us 100 hp at 2400 rpm. As I mentioned, the other day we saw 80 hp at 1800 rpm on the dyno, so we will be fine-IF(big IF!) we can get the same performance at B'ville. Of course we lose approximately 18% at B'ville-due to the density altitude change at that elevation-so we've concentrated on getting our fuel burn rate up enough to compensate for that loss. If all our consulting engineers are right, a drag coefficient of .2 or less and 100 hp will get us to 170+ mph.
Tom Kimmel has graciously offered us the use of one of his engines if we decide to go that way in the future. I feel that the combination we have is a good one for the present-if this one doesn't do the job-we'll go with a bit more power. Back in 2003, I bought a Bryan engine just for that purpose-so that could be a possibility. Of course, the engine is a vital part of the plant-but the steam generator is the real basis for the power that comes out of the engine-and for big engines we're gonna need a big generator!
Randy-regarding your question-yes I'm using the Finbraze tubing provided by the Fin Tube people. It's 3/8 S/S tubing with copper fins-8 per inch. The finned tubing is used in the cooler part of the coil stack, with the smooth steel tubing used in the superheater section.
Thanks-guys-for the continuing support and ideas-that really helps!!
Chuk
WWW.STEAMSPEEDAMERICA.COM
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