TOLEDO STEAM ENGINE

EBAY AUCTION FOR A TOLEDO STEAM ENGINE. THE LINK IS AT MY STEAMLINK WEBSITE. [steam.netfirms.com] REGARDS, EARL

Hi all,

I was rechecking US Patent # 690,981 issued to R.L Morgan and assigned to American Bicycle Co, Morgan built the Morgan steam trucks and American built the Toledo steamer. The boiler in question DOES look a lot like the Toledo boiler (see attached patent .pdf file). There was one thing I hadn't noticed before, though. On the bottom, left hand side of Figure 1 it definitely shows a jet pump powered by the feed water and forcing recirculation in the boiler coils. Schmidt did this in Germany earlier, but this is the earliest I have seen the idea put forward for vehicular application. Does anyone know if the production boilers utilized this feature?

Regards,

Ken



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2009 09:37PM by frustrated.

Parts of an original Toledo boiler

Answered my own question. That forced recirculation jet pump wasn't just ink on a patent application, like so many other things you run across. I found the attached information in an article from 1902 on the Toledo steamer. Looks like forced recirc boilers go back to the earlier days of steam automobiledom. Since two Toledos usually make the fall car show at The Henry Ford, not like they are totally off the wall, either.

Ken

Forced circulation goes back almost 50 years before Toledo. Martin Benson 1852

[books.google.com]

Hi Rolly,

Yep, Blanchard, Schmidt and a whole bunch of other people were there before the Toledo....and long, long before LaMont. I refer to it as a 'forced circulation' boiler rather than as a LaMont boiler because the concept obviously long predated him. KInd of like people referring to the 'Williams Cycle' as though no one had thought of uniflow and high compression previously. Far as I know, though, the Toledo seems to be the first example of forced circulation on an automobile with everything else being either once through or natural circulation.

Hi folks,

Anyone have any solid information as to what the feed water level control system on the Toledo was like?

Regards,

Ken

Ken
I don’t think we should consider the feed water as forced circulation; it was used in many boilers to induce circulation. In many of the three drum water tube boilers including Herreshoff and early Navy three drums the water entered two manifolds in the upper drum and had a row of holes in each manifold that aliened with the outside row of tube to induce circulation down the outside row and up the inner tubes. There were sheet metal barriers between the rows of tubes to direct the flow of gases down and then up the outer most rows of tubes, and the feed entered the cooler tubes on the outside row and went down to the lower drum and then up.

Hi Rolly,

Can you tell me where your Toledo boiler pictures came from? And do you know where the boiler is/was?
My Toledo had it's original boiler when I got it, though the inner shell had been buckled through excess heat, and I have chosen not to use it.

I took the photo at the 2006 meet in Florida. I have forgotten who had it. I think I have the name at home, but I’m traveling right now.
Rolly

Nick-Rolly;

I think the pic is of Bill Thompsons' Toledo Boiler--he was at the Meet with his Toledo, and I think he had a boiler with him--right Rolly??
I think I remember seeing it there...



Cheers---Chuk

I think he had a boiler with him--right Rolly??
Chuk
Yes I think your right Chuk
Rolly

Thanks Chuk and Rolly. Presumably Bill Thompson has not got a working Toledo boiler, unless he reconditioned the one in the pics. Do you know if anyone has rebuilt one as I wonder how successful, or not, they were. The boiler inspector over here in the UK did not even like the idea of rebuilding mine as the design--inner and outer cylinders bolted together with pressure in between, was showing too many signs of leakage.

I have managed to locate an original Toledo pilot light and am having some new silicon bronze castings made if anyone is interested.

Nick

Presumably Bill Thompson has not got a working Toledo boiler
Nick

I seem to remember that he did build a new one for his car. He had the old one on display to show how it was constructed.
Rolly

Hi Nick:

I'm interested in the Toledo boiler level control device, I found a 1901 patent by William Edmondson assigned to the American Bicycle Co. that is very interesting. It has two differential plungers working against boiler pressure. One plunger is also exposed to the boiler, if the exposed chamber is below water level the system hydro locks and relieves back to the feed tank. If the chamber is above water level the compressibility of the steam permits the piston to move and dump the feed to the boiler. If it works, it's a fairly neat system, mounting straight to the boiler at the control level. Attached is the aforementioned patent in Adobe format. Does this sound similar to what is on your vehicle?

Regards,

Ken

All files from this thread

File Name	File Size		Posted by	Date
690981.PDF	268.7 KB	open | download	frustrated	05/13/2009	Read message
007_7.JPG	218.6 KB	open | download	Rolly	05/14/2009	Read message
008_8.JPG	209.2 KB	open | download	Rolly	05/14/2009	Read message
toledo recirc.JPG	49.2 KB	open | download	frustrated	06/07/2009	Read message
688773.PDF	409.5 KB	open | download	frustrated	12/07/2009	Read message