Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile Recent Messages

Advanced

Bower and Bell engine

Posted by Brian McMorran 
Bower and Bell engine
October 23, 2004 09:26AM
Does anyone have experience of the Bower and Bell engine design as advertised in "Light Steam Power " and SCD&SA ? I am considering buying a part built unit for a small car project and know at 30hp it will be limited but was the engine really any good ?
Graeme Vagg
Re: Bower and Bell engine
October 23, 2004 10:52PM
Brian,

I bought the plans but did not build the system as it looked too small for car use.

Graeme
Re: Bower and Bell engine
October 24, 2007 02:34PM
Two years later and I have an update.
I now have an engine mounted in a frame ready for testing with a dynamometer.
Generator is powered by wood pellets and steam pressure is 1500psi.Temperature has been variable, 500F to 950F but this should be cured before I get it attached to the dyno. Water slugs are abely handled by the in built relief valves.
The link is to a video of the engine under light test.
[uk.youtube.com]

The attached picture is of the rig under construction, clear view of the engine.

Brian


Re: Bower and Bell engine
December 21, 2007 01:39PM

Undertook a dynamometer test on the B&B engine rig today at the local agricultural college.
Due to frost damage during transport, part of the water circuit didn't operate correctly causing temperature variation and pressure limitation to 800psi.

Fuel 35lbs of wood pellet with energy content of 7588 Btu/lb. With the aid of barbecue gell, it took 8 minutes from cold to fire upto 300psi and a further 8 minutes to 1500psi. Secret is to have just the right amount of water in the tubes.
1 hour at constant 1890rpm under variable load simulations,peak power 22bhp at 840psi.

All in all a sucess as far as this amateur is concerned, the engine shows a lot of potential for a light car, just got to get the generator under better control.I will keep boring you with my efforts because someday it may help the next person who unearths one of these engines.

Brian


Re: Bower and Bell engine
December 21, 2007 02:44PM
Brian,

Thanks for the update, please keep us posted as you proceed.

Scott
TH
Re: Bower and Bell engine
January 02, 2008 04:56PM
Brian

This sounds like what I am looking for. I'm looking to power an alternator for a hybrid small pickup. Any idea yet about efficiency? Can you measure steam consumption rates?

Tom
Re: Bower and Bell engine
January 03, 2008 09:22AM
Hello Tom

At early stages of testing so have no idea of steam rate etc.
Dynamometer is a distance away and only available during working hours so I intend now to build my own hydraulic dyno.
In theory this engine should be good for a hybrid, there is a note in the plans that 20hp at 2000rpm is recomended for marine / constant operation.

Drawing set no.10 is still available from [www.lightsteampower.freeserve.co.uk]
Castings are no longer availble. Have thought of getting some made but comments on this forum indicate that it is a lot of machining for little horsepower.

Another prospect is the engine Frank Williams is working on,think it is 60hp. Checkout subject: CONSENSUS?,

Brian
Re: Bower and Bell engine
March 06, 2008 01:47PM
Hi folks

Another request for information.

Does anyone remember Wendell Mason's V2 compound as shown in Steam Power Quarterly Vol 2 no. 1. I have attached a picture. Was the engine ever fitted to a car and if so how did it perform.

This may become my personal thread if I keep on like this.


Re: Bower and Bell engine
March 07, 2008 08:47AM
Brian,

Indeed, I saw Wendell's car as it came from Barney Becker. It was a little Goliath station wagon that had one of their two cylinder two stroke engines in it.
Barney kept reducing the amount of oil in the gasoline, until one day the engine blew up and there were little balls all over the street. I got the Bosch direct fuel injection setup from Barney.
Wendell got the car from Barney to convert to steam and that is the transmission you see in the photo.

This was one very well constructed steamer and that I why I posted the inquiry for any information about what happened to the car after Wendell died.
It has to be somewhere and perhaps his son can shed some light on this if someone can turn him up. Unless the family scrapped it.

I think Wendell did mount the engine in the car and was working on the steam generator when he died. This would have been on very nice steamer.
Do any of the L.A. members know where his son lives and how to contact him?

Jim
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 11, 2008 11:51AM
Brian,

Does the Steam Power Quarterly Vol 2 no. 1 article provide a description of the technical details of Wendell Mason's engine?

Regards'

John
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 11, 2008 01:41PM
John,

Afraid not, it was part of an article by Wendell about Power Plants and Their Placement and there is no mention of the engine only the above picture tagged on the end.
I think I saw a letter in Light Steam Power magazine but I've no idea what year. If I find anymore info will post links here.

On another subject, anyone know of the Hindle 35hp V2 compound?

Cheers
Brian
TH
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 11, 2008 04:55PM
Hi Brian

Hope the tests are going well. Going back to my January questions, have you any performance data yet?

Tom
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 12, 2008 03:51PM
Hello Tom

Very little has happened since December, work and sickness has caused delays.
But I have bought my own 250hp dynamometer and spent a morning making up flanges and getting it rigged to the engine. Fault with pellet feed auger stopped me testing any further, constant 8hp at 2950 rpm.
Got a little data recorder as well to measure temp and pressures.
Got to get my new workshop built first, could be December again before I'm back on steam again.

John
If you do a search of this and the Stanleysteamers phorum Jim Crank has made some more comments ref. Wendell's engine. I had a look through the Steam Automobile but can find no other reference than a picture of the valve gear.

Brian
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 12, 2008 10:44PM
Thanks Brian,

According to Jim's post that you mentioned Wendell Mason's engine was a 2" X 3-1/2' X 2-1/2" compound with piston valves, and fixed cutoff. How does this compare with the Bower & Bell engine. I have a photo of a Hindle V-4.
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 13, 2008 03:39AM
John

The B&B is smaller but same arrangement. When Roy Anderson built his version before the war he refined B&B's sketches and drew up a larger crankcase to allow a variable cutoff. It was these drawings LSP were selling.
All the B&Bs I know of have fixed cutoff.
It's a tricky little engine to machine, most people buy the plans then decide it's too much work for the horsepower.

For comparison of V2s

B&B 30hp 1.25 x 2.5 x 1.5 stroke 3000rpm 1500psi 750F 21" wide across V
Hindle 35hp 1.75 x 3 x 2 2000rpm 900psi 716F 28" wide across V
Anderson 60hp 2 x 3.5 x 3 N/A 800psi 750F 33.75" wide across V
Doble Aux 1.5 x 2.5 x 2
Briar/Doble40hp 1.875 x 3.25 x 2.125 4000rpm 950psi

Pritchard 100hp Uniflow 2.75 x 2 stroke

Wendell's unit is nicely engineered, pity no one knows where it is.
Compared to the dimensions above it must be a lot larger in size than the pictures appear.

I have studied Roy Anderson's 60hp and it would be a discredit to call it a big B&B. A group in Sweden are planning to build this engine for an African tractor project.


Regards
Brian



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2008 09:03AM by Brian McMorran.
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 13, 2008 12:30PM
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 13, 2008 03:11PM
Thanks John

Sorry I mis-understood, I hoped it was a picture of a completed engine.
Light Steam Power printed this and other views and Steam Power Quaterly Vol.4 No.3 1970 has a two page article about it. Never heard of one being built.

SPQ Vol.1 No.1 1967 has a picture of the valve gear on a V2 compound of 2 x 3.5 x 2.25 stroke. Since the article is by Wendell E. Mason it wouldn't be wrong to assume it is his engine.

Are you interested in building or buying a V2 yourself?

Brian
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 13, 2008 04:22PM
Hello Brian,

My apologies, as I should have made it more clear about the photo that I had. I purchased Roger Ulsky's V2 2X2 piston valve engine, which I would like to get running in a VW Thing, but I am not sure it would have enough power. It would be interesting to test it on a dyno, as you've done with the Bower & Bell engine. Roger originally intended to install his engine in a VW Dunebuggy. I like Roger's approach to engineering, his approach to engineering is much like the folks that I work with @ my real job.

John
Re: Bower and Bell engine
August 13, 2008 06:23PM
Hello Jim,

Do you believe there is enough difference in the efficiency of a V2 compound versus a V2 simple to justify the added trouble of building and balancing a compound?

Regards'

John
Re: Bower and Bell engine
October 13, 2008 11:10AM
Brian told us 13th August that a Swedish group is making the 60hp Anderson V twin for an African tractor project.

Are you listening Brian? Does anyone know the group, how to contact them, or how they're progressing?

Is anyone familiar with this Dave King V4 s/a engine? - scroll down to the bottom.

[oldenginehouse.users.btopenworld.com]

Regards
Greg
Re: Bower and Bell engine
October 13, 2008 04:21PM
Hello Greg

Info can be found at [www.industriesforafrica.com]
If you search for Frank Williams on this forum he has a few messages listed.

The website comments that the Anderson engine is the 'B' plan with Ted Pritchard's uniflow their prime project. I contacted Frank late August and the roles have reversed and they are back on with the Anderson. They are not in a position to sell any castings or parts yet but hope by next year the situation may be improved. Present focus is on the stationary engine.

Frank, if your reading this give us an update.

Talking of tractors, Steam Power Unit in Ferguson Tractor, 1950 amongst the Doble papers at the Bancroft, unfortunately it is not downloadable and the library is closed till Jan. 2009. Can anyone give me a clue to the content?

Brian
Re: Bower and Bell engine
October 13, 2008 06:00PM
Hi Brian,

Thanks for the post & the link. Most helpful.

Nice to watch your youtube videos.

Greg
Re: Bower and Bell engine
October 21, 2008 04:05PM
Greg
You asked about David King's V4, have an answer courtesy of Doug Leeming,the project was never completed due to funding. It is a disc valve arrangement and
there is a report and pictures in the Steam Automobile vol 25 no 3. 1983. I don't have this copy but Doug sent me a scan of the page.

Brian
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

All files from this thread

File Name File Size   Posted by Date  
test rig.jpg 166.2 KB open | download Brian McMorran 10/24/2007 Read message
dynatest.jpeg 35.5 KB open | download Brian McMorran 12/21/2007 Read message
Wendell Mason.jpg 263.3 KB open | download Brian McMorran 03/06/2008 Read message