SACA Forums

flair vs compression fittings (10 replies)

jjtjr — Mon, 14 May 2012 00:49:05 -0500

The question is what to use,compression or flair fittings. I rebuilt a 1901 locomobile and used 3/8" compression fittings on all the copper tubing, this was done because it was easy when making up the new lines. Was this good or not. I seem to be constantly chasing leaks on the water side of the system. I'm not sure if the fitting were not as tight the first time and just need another turn, or they get loose when using the car. It's not driven very much just for shows.There are other places where it was silver brazed. I know in the HVAC field compression fittings are a no no. The system is operating at 250 psi max. Should I use lock tight when assembling the fittings. Whats your opinion.

waterhead vs. friction (2 replies)

richard orr — Tue, 08 May 2012 03:11:55 -0500

First of all I should ask if there are any in-depth books in the S.A.C.A. files that discuss boiler principals but are written in a laymen's vanacular? If I could get my hands on such , I could spare one and all these pestering questions.

However, having now made a show of being concerned about other's sensibilitys, here is another one of those questions concerning lamont principals in regards to low pressure:

Is not the amount of back pressure that the recirculation pump must work against measured in correlation to the velocity of the water being recirculated? In other words, the higher the velocity of recirculation, the higher the resistance. Let us assume a scenario where recirculation water is not being pumped into the generating tubes at all but rather seeps due only to water head from an under-boiler-pressure reserve tank ANY distance above. Being as this tank is under boiler pressure may it be assumed that all pressures are equal within and the water from the tank may seep simply due to water head. Or do the forming bubbles create a backpressure measured independently of re-circulation velocity requiring water head to be set at a specific height above?

Team Steam USA (3 replies)

HLS — Thu, 03 May 2012 10:22:05 -0500

Team Steam USA
[teamsteamusa.com]

Hi Guys
Check out the new Cyclone streamliner site. It shows all the details of the new project.
We have been invited to make the first test and record runs at the NASA strip at Cape Canaveral.
We would like to invite all our fellow sponsors to be apart of the new project.
Cyclone was also a sponsor of the previous program, and though we did not receive any sponsorship money, we will honor you name on the trailer and credits to you.
We expect to bring the new streamliner to Berrien Springs in September. Nelson the driver is looking forward to being there also. He is a new SACA member and steam enthusiast.

The web site is new so send me your thoughts on it,
Harry

[teamsteamusa.com]

low pressure monotubes (37 replies)

richard orr — Thu, 10 May 2012 14:45:10 -0500

I understand that friction within the tubes of a lamont boiler run at low pressures would cause so much back pressure as to make the recirculation pump work beyond what is practicle. But, what I am wondering is weather this is true across the board for any type of once through system? For example, do the steam bubbles generated in a non-recirculating monotube working at, let's say 80 p.s.i. , cause the feed pump to over work or is the velocity so much slower in the feed pump as compared to the recirculation pump as to make the resistence negligible?
The other question is could a displacer pump be expected to work reasonably well if pushing feed water through two parrallel circuts of a mono-tube or would there be a chance of uneven flow?

Balance Spreadsheet (13 replies)

frustrated — Fri, 04 May 2012 11:23:47 -0500

The posted spreadsheet is designed to determine the unbalance characteristics of basic engine designs up through 12 cylinders. In a pinch it can perform calculations for small engines by using some of the crankpin entries to represent counterweights or other crank components such as reluctor rings. I have some more advanced and thorough sheets, but they are far less user friendly than this, and I suspect it isn't that friendly. This one should at least be useable by someone who didn't write it, even if it doesn't allow for the same degree of input.

The spreadsheet has a number of pages, each accessible via tabs at the bottom. Information regarding engine configuration is entered on one page, another page contains graphs showing primary and secondary unbalance forces for both the reference (REF) and opposing (OPP) balance planes as well as overall engine shake. A couple of other pages break the forces down into horizontal and vertical components by degree of crank rotation as well as calculating the force vectors and magnitude. The pages numbered 1 through 12 perform the basic calculations for each crankpin (or counterweight) from the data entry page.

Feel free to ask if there are any questions...

Regards,

Ken

Simplicator Engine (4 replies)

Doug-Ji — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:56:24 -0500

Attached is a rendering I drew for the engine for the Simplicator.
Basic oscillating design, twin, 2.5 " (6.35 cm ) Bore X 3.75" (9.5 cm) Stroke

I have the real cylinders and pistons on hand, just need to purchase the half inch plate aluminum.

Hypro pump (8 replies)

rogerulsky — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 14:15:04 -0500

I have heard the praises of Hypro pumps sung for many years so finally bought one. In the manual that came with it, it said to flush it out with antifreeze if it is not going to be used for a while, and it is best practice to do it even in an overnight non-use situation. It will prevent rust and lube the checks, etc. I never heard of anyone doing this so I cleverly skipped this step.

Well, the rust that comes out of one of these small twin piston pumps after a couple of days of non-use is quite spectacular, plus the checks get contaminated and the pump bores look crummy. So I am now flushing with the antifreeze as otherwise, it is very undependable. And this is a pain.

Has anyone else ran into this problem?

Roger

let's do an "eta" contest!! (18 replies)

Bill Hinote — Tue, 08 May 2012 13:10:23 -0500

Hi:

Here's an interesting engineering exercise:

The Greek letter "eta" is used to quantify (numerically) the conversion of efficiency from one form to another that is similar; in our case (as steam enthusiasts), we are interested in how much energy is produced by combustion compared to how much energy is produced mechanically. The result is expressed in percent but is actually combustion energy divided by mechanical energy times 100.

I would like any interested participants to enter this thread with what they believe to be "good" efficiency numbers. All these would be "x" as the numerator and mechanical energy as the denominator. This would allow comparisons between various sources of input energy such as combustion, electrical, solar, etc, etc.

I'm witholding my entry until last--but fair warning, you won't believe the number!!

Let the games begin!

Bill

Knowles rotary double Wobble plate apposed piston engine. (8 replies)

Rolly — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:51:40 -0500

George sent me these photos quite a few years ago, found them looking for something else. Also this e-mail. Hopefully he will expand on this hear as my memory has slipped somewhat on this engine.
It’s an interesting engine to talk about.
Rolly

Knowles rotary double Wobble plate apposed piston engine.
From George Nutz
Took a few pictures of the 16 cylinder barrel engine that Kenneth
Knowles built around 1970. It is perfectly balanced wobble plates and
he rated 300HP@ 1000psi -1000F-3000 rpm---I would after some studies half
that. He was the Principle Stress Analyst at Pratt & Whitney and lost
everything on this endeavor chasing government grant monies. It’s about
24" long, 14" diameter, 250# and his stress analysis is some of the
most magnificent I have ever seen. Unfortunately the engine may have
heat loss-thermodynamic problems. It will require a complete teardown
to discover why the shifting cam mechanism is broken and how he planned
to lubricate all the parts. The last shot showing the huge tapered
Timken rollers and 8 crosshead guides implies the quality of this
engine. This is a great story with some tragedy involved. Pictures
taken on dark side of house, just am shooting away with Jane’s Mavica
Digital camera. It would be self-starting with 15% admission and the
"Wobble" plate is equivalent to infinitely long connecting rods.
Someday, somehow I hope to disassemble, repair, and rebuild. Thanks to Coburn on this one.

Tire and Wheel Source (14 replies)

David Schubert — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:39:36 -0500

Does anyone know of a source for non-clincher tires and wheels? (see attached photo)

David

Recompression relief (29 replies)

frustrated — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:24:31 -0500

I have about 1000 patents that need to be culled, cataloged and posted to my database. While taking a desultory stab at the task, I re-encountered US Patent 514,333

[www.google.com]

I "lost' the patent and could not find it through either Patent Office or Google searches, the electronic files aren't perfect by a long shot. Issued in 1894 (as early as 1887 in France and England) to well-known French Naval Architect Augustin Normand, the patent describes a cylinder relief valve that directs over-compression back to the steam chest...a feature steam car enthusiasts credit to Calvin Williams in Patent 2,943,608 issued in 1960.

[www.google.com]

There is a tendency to assume earlier designers didn't really understand the full impact of their inventions and thus to credit later designers with better understanding and somehow consider them to be the 'real' inventors. What impressed me was the appreciation of the effects of both clearance and compression as a means of alleviating clearance losses, the value of recompression heating as well as the detrimental effects of over-compression...and the intentional selection of venting excess compression to the steam chest to "save steam" as well as to limit compression to the chest pressure...which is the ideal level of recompression. To quote A Normand:

"The compression of the steam at the end of the stroke of the piston presents the advantages, as is well known, of neutralizing entirely or partially the prejudicial influence of clearance and of heating the surfaces of the cylinder which come in contact with the entering steam and also of enabling the engine to run at high, speeds which, would otherwise be dangerous. When the exhaust and admission of steam are controlled by a single valve it appears impossible, with the arrangements ordinarily employed, to vary the expansion without producing corresponding changes in the compression. Consequently the compression cannot be regulated properly for all conditions of expansion. When the Stephenson link motion, or other analogous arrangements are employed the degree of compression increases rapidly with the ratio of expansion, and even when a special or separate slide valve is employed for the exhaust, there is always a risk of the slide being slightly out of order and when this occurs the compression may become excessive so that the pressure of the steam in the cylinders is liable to rise much higher than that in the valve chest. This is especially the case with the high pressure now used, where a few degrees of superheating will prevent steam from condensing without a large increase of pressure. In order to provide against this danger and obtain from compression all the advantages that it presents in theory, and render it independent of the ratio of expansion, the cylinders of steam engines constructed according to this invention are provided with safety valves so arranged as to blow off into the valve chest instead of into the open air. This renders it impossible for the pressure within the cylinder ever to greatly exceed that in the valve chest and the steam being blown off into the valve chest is not wasted."

I always find stuff like this so interesting, he obviously had a sophisticated understanding of what was going on in the engine...pretty close to what you would expect now...but there were any number of engines built contemporaneously which exhibited no evidence that anything beyond rote "rule of thumb" was employed. Uniflow engines were not entirely foreign by this date, if only someone had added these valves....

Regards,

Ken

Rebuild of a 1901 mason engine (1 reply)

jjtjr — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:54:46 -0500

Just completed a rebuild of a 1901 mason steam car engine. I acquired this engine this Jan. and rebuilt it over the last month. It will be going into my 1901 Likamobile steam car. The engine that was in the car for the last 2 years was 1899 mason that I rebuilt 2 years ago and installed. Then I came across this later mason which is larger and more robust in design. It was completely rebuilt having to make new parts because the old one were worn out.The installation of the 1901 mason is going on now and is almost done. See photos of the progress.

1. 1899 mason
2. 1901 mason before rebuild
3. after rebuild
4. 1901 car

It's awful quiet here--and my new project (28 replies)

Bill Hinote — Thu, 10 May 2012 16:49:22 -0500

Hi all:

After a nice run of postings on this forum I've noticed how things have gone really quiet. What's up, everybody? Let's keep on steaming here!

I've started my next project which leads to the next after that, etc., etc. In this case I've devised a way to create a new engine using my existing parts and materials, and I hope to demonstrate it successfully in operation--after which I will move to other parts of my ultimate goal which is to create a steam-powered vehicle of my own design and construction.

The realities of time and monetary constraints have required me to downsize my goals; currently, I hope to build and operate a form of gokart that would be a little bigger than traditional, in order to accomodate the larger inventory of necessary steam power components and ancillaries. Before that, though I have to build a motor--and then a steam generator, before I can even consider the final form the vehicle will take. I will put all the steam-related parts together and run them as a static power system after which I can create the vehicle to power them with.

Anyway, back to the motor. After considering all the possibilities I've decided to build a single-cylinder double acting motor with a fixed eccentric to drive the valve action. I really wanted to build a uniflow motor for better efficiency but the reality is, they need more cylinders to provide the necessary smoothness. So, it's a piston-valved, double-acting engine.

I've progressed far enough to show some photos of hardware; I decided to begin with the crankshaft, and luckily my parts bin has yielded enough finished parts from many other projects along with enough raw materials, to allow me to create a built-up crank. The 2 photos show the assembled crank and then the parts disassembled and laid out to show more detail of each. I chose to create a crank which is "strung together" with separate pieces all held together with a high-strength 3/8" thru-bolt. The highest stresses are created at the crank throw where it attaches to the first crank member--and this will be handled by a flanged crank member and a 6-bolt pattern bolting the 2 parts together (not completed yet, that's next). This assembly is designed to allow an adapter for a chain sprocket to be directly mounted and using a 1/4 key it should reliably transmit its power to the vehicle. The rest is just held in place by the clamping action of the through-bolt, including the eccentric for the valve drive. I'm assuming the loads can be handled by this method, time will tell.

The cylinder dimensions will be 2 1/4" bore and 2" stroke. 2 rings on the piston, and the piston valves are 5/8 diameter and will be ringed also. Packing glands on the piston rod and the valve rods.

This is to be a "bed-mount"engine, with all the parts anchored together on a strong base along its axis. I'll continue to post photos as things progress. Don't expect this to be a "quickie" project.

BTW it's amazing what a person can accomplish with a little imagination and forethought substituting for better cash flow and tooling. It ain't gonna be pretty, but I think it'll run just fine.

Bill

Locomobile steering knuckles (3 replies)

IronChief — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 12:39:34 -0500

Just received these back from the foundry the other day. These are for the Locomobile steam carriage I'm piecing together. These were made from the original Locomobile drawings. I haven't started the build yet, still gathering all the parts. These were cast in nodular iron.

knuckles1.jpg

knuckles2.jpg

-Ron

patants (2 replies)

charlesg — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:29:36 -0500

Hi everyone. I've been gone for a while.

What is the best way to procure a patant? I am hoping to not get snookered.

CharlesG

spool pistons for uniflow engine? (6 replies)

Bill Hinote — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:51:04 -0500

Hi again:

I'm just doing some thinking about steam engine details; here's another one and I'd like to hear some opinions on the subject, as usual:

It occurs to me that in traditional uniflow engines the long piston required to cover the centralized exhaust port ring in the cylinder walls is a source of excess weight and possible drag. Is it necessary to keep the ports covered during the midpoint of the stroke when there is no effect on the working steam in the ends of each cylinder, beyond each end of the piston in a double-acting engine?

The use of a spool-type piston design, with contact only at its ends where it would support the necessary sealing rings, would create a much lighter and lower-drag result. Assuming the exhaust port is connected to atmospheric or even vacuum values at its outlet, the dead space in the cylinder between the ends of the piston would appear to be harmless. The appearance of the piston would approximate that of many piston valves used in steam apps over the years.

Bill

Ross yoke drive (31 replies)

Bill Hinote — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 11:33:20 -0500

Has anyone considered using the Ross yoke in a steam engine (double-acting, in particular)? Here's a link to a nice animation of it:

[www.animatedengines.com]

Andy Ross has spent many years of real, "hands-on" development in Stirling engines and this is one of the practical results. It places the cylinders as close together as possible and thus minimizes the undesirable "dead space". An interesting variation of this inverts the yoke and places the crankshaft much higher in the assembly. BTW he offers a free download of his book on his development of the Stirling and this linkage on his website, it's a great read and worth having IMO.

Anyway, it occurs to me this would have an excellent application in a parallel cylinder double-acting steam engine. In the animation you'll notice how low the angle of deflection is in the "connecting rods" (I guess we can still call them that); to me this implies the possible design of a DA steam engine without crossheads. With the inverted yoke the conrods are longer yet and thus the angle is further reduced.

In an app for a DA uniflow engine the additional piston length required could cover the side loading values created by the very low conrod angles. I believe a new standard of compactness would result in a modern double-acting steam engine.

Does anyone share this opinion?

Bill

STEAM MOTOR (no replies)

earlea — Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:04:09 -0500

I've featured a link for the steam motor at my website [steamlinks.6te.net] Also, this is a news link to the mazda rotary engine [www.greencarreports.com] Regards, Earl

monotube reserve feedwater storage (14 replies)

richard orr — Sun, 18 Mar 2012 17:34:35 -0500

Gentlemen, ...Hello again
Not being an educated man, I find myself a bit muzzled when expressing opinions among minds of such technical accuman...and with five little hungry mouths chirping away there's not much free time to get on this bebuttoned gizzmoputer thing anyway.
However; I have been doing some building of rocket stoves lately and that naturally led to marrying that technology to that of monotube steam boilers. The only person I have seen on YOUTUBE that is fooling around in that direction seems to be going about it all wrong by putting the generating coil within the firebox riser stack which just isn't a-gwanna-git-it as evidenced by all the smoke exiting out the stack. The right way to go is to put all the generating tubes at the top end of the riser where-by they won't negatively effect the heat and velocity of the gasses generated by rocket stove principals.
Though generating tubes cannot be placed within the walls of the radiant heat area of the fire box, the shape of the top of the riser could be configured to allow for an ample amount of generating tube area to be exposed to the flames shooting up the riser. It also seems that the intense velocity of the rocket stove draft would help mitigate the restriction of tube surface to radiant heat.
Aside from the very clean burn generated by rocket stoves, there is a very attractive advantage in regards to placing such a boiler on stand-by mode ( when using solid fuel ). This mode is very helpfull in steamboats. Stand-by mode in such a boiler can easily be obtained by dumping the fire box gasses into an outside flue before it acts upon any tube what-so-ever ....instant safety!
I have coupled with this train of thought, an article in (S.M.S.L. Nov.-Dec. 62) about the BEST STEAM POWER PLANT. The boiler is a once through model but has a feed water reserve tank within .... And so gentlemen...finally...within all this verbage....here...a question....humbly presented to the board of the Technicaly Knowledged: Besides the Lamont design, why have I not seen such a reserve tank used in monotubes? Is there some principal I am overlooking that would prevent a reserve tank from being tee'd in to the generating tube and the bitter end of the generating tube feeding back into the reserve tank which could then do double duty as a steam seperater? Wouldn't such a configuration pressurise the reserve tank so that it could readily even out fluctuations in fire rate/demand and wouldn't a check valve at the T of the reserve tank be all that is needed to do the magic?.....???

crankshaft id help (3 replies)

jjtjr — Wed, 09 May 2012 17:02:44 -0500

Help Guys, I picked up what a looks like a 1901 mason car engine. I have one from 1899 so i'm familiar with the engine. This one has a lower bronze frame its 2 1/2 by 3. The engine has ball bearings throughout as compared to my 1899 engine. see pictures. What I need is how does the crank come apart I have to replace the chain sprocket. There is a large nut on the center of the crank that is against the sprocket. I've turned the nut away from the sprocket but nothing happens. I can see what looks like a tapered pins in the eccentrics but only on one side ( how do you drive it out?) the main cranks have keys in them but no tapered pins to hold them on the main shaft, are they pressed on? Do I press them off then remove the eccentrics to get at the chain sprocket. I don't want to force anything until I get some feedback.I can post more photos if needed.

Traditional Walking Beam Sidewheeler (no replies)

fredrosse — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 09:11:19 -0600

After many years of planning to build this it is finally a reality. Just a simple steam plant with a slow turning walking beam engine, direct connected to the sidewheels. Have enjoyed many outings this past year, along the Delaware River, various Lakes on the east coast, etc. Some videos on youtube under "Sidewheel Steamboat"

Doble Book-by Jim Crank (6 replies)

George-n — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:18:25 -0600

I have been informed that this great two volume 650 page book with 400 high detail photos is near completion. Unfortunately the latest 3 promised Doble owner/supporters have not provided the necessary promised funding to complete the last two chapters and to pay the funds owed to the editor to complete this most exhaustive project. I have been blessed with reviewing and reading several of the earlier editions over several years and must say the book is so exciting to read much like a great mystery novel, all the behind the scenes activity of the Doble saga are fascinating in detail. Very hard to put down and not pick it up quickly again as Jim's writing style is so unique and historical; several Doble owners have had a chance to review parts of the book and all are very enthused about it being published and desire buying several copies themselves. Unfortunately the richer of the Doble owners and car enthusiasts are not yet helping with the last bit of funding required to complete the project.
Jim has probably been writing this book for 8 years from his vast collection of data and ownership of Doble Steam Motors that it would be a terrible shame if he threw this nearly completed and exhausting project out due to a lack of $28,000 funds to complete the final edition for printing. The detail and accuracy in this book is of the highest quality and it would be a great loss if Jim were to throw in the towel on it after 90% completion, this priceless story would be lost forever.
If there are any potential supporters that read the SACA thread they should contact Jim Crank, for those multi millionaires out there please consider helping with the completion of this one-of-a-kind tale. Coming up with $28,000 to complete the editing should not be impossible and Jim has put so much time and money into it on his own.
I know this is sort of a rare request to be put on the SACA website to help the effort to complete this two volume book and hope I have not offended anyone by doing so and is within the policies of this SACA thread. The story is incredible!
George

Book: 'Uniflow, backpressure and steam extraction engines' by Allen (2 replies)

kegs — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 05:53:23 -0600

I found this book in a bookshop the other day and am trying to figure out how much it's worth, really good condition, original binding and looks like it's not been opened much at all, any ideas?

STEAM LAUNCH - EBAY (no replies)

earlea — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:23:19 -0600

EBAY AUCTIONS - 34 FT STEAM LAUNCH WITH 25 HP ENGINE [cgi.ebay.com] STUART NUMBER 1 STEAM ENGINE [www.ebay.com] THIS COULD POWER A CANOE. STEAMLINKS WEBSITE [steamlinks.6te.net] REGARDS, EARL

Steam System Modeling sugestions or coments please. (6 replies)

steamerandy — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 17:59:55 -0500

Hi all.

I have been working on a paper on modeling a steam power system. Right now I have
the first 5 parts, and introduction(forward) and table of contents started of it.
The goal of it is to explain dynamic modeling and the theory behind the model or
models. I am working in a steam property plug-in for VisSim and this was to be part
of the package. I talked to Ken and suggested that the club can use the material. I
am posting it here first to get comments and corrections of the work. Each part is
a separate web page. I started converting them to HTML and have a few ready.

The first part is an introduction and table of contents. It is a work in progress
so the contents are not complete. The broad outline is to cover:

"Engineering Modeling" definitions and terminology.
"Thermodynamics" energy, processes and cycles.
"Mechanisms" mechanical energy transfer.
"Model development" ...

The above is the mathematical foundation of doing a dynamic simulation model. I
haven't got a break down of model development as yet. But I an thinking of doing by
component. A component model would generally be a combination of mechanisms and
thermodynamic processes.

This intro and contents I am just posting here with the HTML removed. It will be extended
as parts are added.

Introduction

This is about engineering modelling of steam engine mechanics
and thermodynamic processes and it's axillary equipment as related to steam
power systems. A steam power system includes steam generation, producing power
in the engine, condensing steam exhaust and other apparatus controlling fluid
flow, pumping etc. This subject deals with the theoretical and actual operation
of a steam engine and requires a bit of back ground in the physics branch's of
mechanics and thermodynamics. As well as an understanding of higher mathematics.
Hopefully readers interested in developing a modern steam power system will find
this useful.

The reader is advised to read "part 1" so that the
terminology used here is understood. "Part 2" through "Part x" cover the basic
thermodynamic processes. "Part x+1" through "Part y" cover mechanical dynamic
analysis of mechanisms. "Part y+1" through "Part z" cover system modling.

Contents

Introduction

    Part 1.   Engineering Modeling and Computation.

    This first Part defines terminology of engineering modeling. 
    In any discussion it is important that we all use the same terminology.

    Part 2.   Forms of Energy.

    Part 3    The General Energy Equation.

    Part 4.   The substance Water has properties and Phases.

    Part 5.   Thermodynamic Processes and State Points

Atachment for html document. don't know if this will work. Plan to atach an html doc that links to this graphic.

induced flow propane burner (4 replies)

Bill Hinote — Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:53:08 -0600

Hi again:

I'm really getting into the steam scene, lots of things in my head I wanna turn into hardware!

Here's an interesting project that looks very promising so far:

Propane packs a lot of stored energy, not only as a combustible hydrocarbon (obvious) but also as a stored liquid under pressure. This pressure can be utilized in a properly designed burner instead of just being wasted.

The attached photo shows the first iteration of my attempt to create a burner with the airflow induced by the conversion of the pressurized propane into velocity at an exit nozzle. Eductors are a well-known science and even in steam the Penberthy ejector (among others) employs this effect.

The attached photo shows my version of an interesting "pipe burner" I found on-line (thanks again, Google!) This one is a little different in that it puts the air ports in FRONT of the propane nozzle. Here's the link to this guy's project, I won't take any credit for the concept:

[www.backyardmetalcasting.com]

I built this exactly as specified on his website--except that instead of a sheet metal flare at the outlet I used a "bell reducer" and turned the threads off and cleaned up the interior. I had noticed several others using these bells instead of going to additional trouble to create something.

This baby is easy to light off--and the flame jumps into the bell/flare with just the slighest increase of propane flow; after she heats up I can throttle her over a wide range of settings.

I'm quite excited about this; I can probably create an induced-flow boiler with something similar, and avoid the complication of an electric blower and the ancillaries required to operate it.

This is an early post, I hope to film yet another short youtube clip later today after the sun goes down so you can see the nice blue flame this creates, and how it maintains that quality over a wide range of power. Look for that clip later tonight, or tomorrow at the latest.

Yahoo--steam power is fun!!

Bill

Procon pump setup and test (5 replies)

Bill Hinote — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:40:47 -0600

Hi All:

After seeing a Procon vane pump in successful operation on Kimric Smyth's great steam trike at the Sacramento meet I decided to obtain one for myself and find out a little more about it.

I found a guy selling "new/old stock" on ebay for $30 (he's got more of them)--a great buy IMO. This is the lighter unit with a built-in bypass, and rated for 175 psi.

I've built a test unit using an AC motor rated at 1/5 hp @ 1725 RPM; the pulley ratio is exactly 1:2 so the pump is turning 862 RPM. I mounted the pump using a shaft extension and an outer support bearing to reduce bearing loads on the pump.

In the attached photo, the finished project is shown with a 0-50 pressure gauge and a restrictor valve so I can backpressure the pump and see how she loads the motor up.

Results: The flow rate as measured @ 30 psig is 60 gallons/hour. The motor isn't even breathing hard! I also did a little test where I slowly closed the valve all the way to see how the motor might be affected; I was able to close the valve all the way--still no sign of hard work by the motor. I imagine there's some internal leakage at higher pressures but presume the bypass valve was handling most of the flow.

This pump will make a great circulation pump for a small steam generator of the Lamont type; given the ability to pump at max rated pressure this will also be my FW pump for the time being, I'll devise a switchable circuit to draw water from an outside source through a check valve. In a mobile installation a separate FW pump would probably be appropriate but the Procon could still be used as a backup and to fill the boiler at cold startup.

Next project: a small propane-fired "shop boiler".

Happy Steaming!!

Bill

Condensate circulation (8 replies)

frustrated — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:18:10 -0600

Transferred from "Interesting Uniflow Detail", Ken

frustrated [ PM ]
Re: interesting uniflow detail
February 15, 2012 01:05PM

Hi Bill,

This is one of several really excellent reasons to avoid the use of saturated steam. Bruno Nordberg worried about the problem from the other end. The engine in question ran with superheated steam but at release the steam went saturated before exhaust and he didn't want wet steam in the cylinder absorbing heat when recompressing. His solution was to put some geometry onto the piston crown and cylinder head which caused the steam to spin as it expanded, any moisture would be spun out the uniflow ports at the bottom of the stroke and leave dry steam for compression. The latest revisions to the web pages that I am writing for SACA cover much of the same issues in the direct contact condenser section, water transfers heat fantastically better than air or steam and is thus as good a thing to have when trying to get rid of heat as it is bad when trying to preserve it.

Regards,

Ken

Jim Crank [ PM ]
Re: interesting uniflow detail
February 15, 2012 09:58PM

Ken,

"Water transfers heat fantastically better than air or steam and is thus as good a thing to have when trying to get rid of heat as it is bad when trying to preserve it."

I recall Peter Scott-Brown saying that this was the reason that in 1950 he and Alex Moulton had designed that X-4 single acting engine with water cooled shell and tube condensers between each cylinder in the vees and an ordinary water radiator in the front of a new steam car they wanted to build.
Might be of interest if someone did a thermodynamic analysis of this idea vs. running the exhaust steam into that usual air cooled condenser.

Also what's behind that pumped coil in the Lamont. Faster heat transfer rate.

Jim

frustrated [ PM ]
Re: interesting uniflow detail
February 16, 2012 06:41AM

Jim,

I think the Moulton idea might work ok if a little spin is put on it. The water filled radiator will obviously work well, but there are still the relatively poor thermal characteristics of the steam in the condenser to deal with, that stuff has a lot of volume, low thermal density and conductivity. Shipboard condensers are similar to the Moulton concept in that they also use water flow in the tubes, but the sea water is much cooler than the water I think we'd get from a radiator, so they have one advantage. There IS one other significant difference that doesn't seem to get much coverage, but one that apparently makes the relatively small size of shipboard condensers possible. A portion of the condensate pumped from the hotwell is re-circulated back upwards into the condenser and mixes with the steam descending into the condenser. Two birds with one stone, you have some highly effective direct-contact cooling inside your indirect contact heat exchanger AND you now have superior thermal characteristics on the steam side to facilitate heat transfer to the tubes. We had two settings, "high recirc" and "low recirc", depending on speed and steaming rate you could direct the flow through most of the tube nest or just the lower half, but this might be overkill for a small unit.

Hmmm....actually, now I wonder how well a Doble or Stanley radiator style condenser would work if you put in a small automotive water pump and re-circulated much of the water in the condenser from top to bottom....after all, it's the recirc that is supposed to make the LaMont work better and this is somewhat analogous even after we neglect the issue of nucleation sites.

Regards,

Ken

Helzapoppin (no replies)

Karl Petersen — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:39:18 -0600

Some decades ago an article or series was published in a British magazine, maybe LSP, about a mega-pop-pop boat that ran in an ocean race. It was a great story. Memorable. Unfortunately, I have not come across it in the several forays I have made among the issues that I have, though I have not read them all cover to cover. That will me in my next lifetime, I suspect.
The questions are: 1. Do you remember reading this and, 2. Where is it to be found?